Other knives to consider besides Ikazuchi?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Looking at upgrading my Uraku 210mm and getting a gyuto in carbon steel after having fun sharpening my tojiro shirogami deba. Any other gyutos I should keep an eye out beside Ikazuchi (my current choice)?

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle (Octagonal preferred)

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No. Stainless clad preferred though.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$300


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing thin cuts of cooked meat (tri tips etc), and chopping vegetables.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cut and slice

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Sharpness/ease of sharpening, and a new experience with CS knives.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
No preference

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
No preference, still exploring my preferences.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Stainless clad preferred.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
1 month


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes (beginner)

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes. Currently using Kings 1000/6000. Would appreciate other stone recommendations as well.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
 

daveb

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
12,234
Reaction score
4,276
Welcome.

This is great knife that will check all your boxes.

 

choochoochop

Active Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
40
Reaction score
46
Location
USA
Wakui is an excellent value for the money. They tend to run around $200-220 for a 240, depending on the retailer. You might be able to find one used on here as well.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Hi guys, those look like amazing knives! I'll keep those in my watchlist. What are good sharpening stones to look at?
Would you guys recommend 1000/6000 for these knives too?
 

tostadas

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Messages
695
Reaction score
725
Location
California
King is fine. I personally don't care for higher than 3-4k for kitchen use, but those knives are certainly capable of taking and holding that level of refinement (6k).
 

JaVa

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
177
Both the Wakui and Kashima Sanjo (made by Yoshikane) are very solid options. Can't really go wrong with either.

One more option could be this S. Tanaka. It has a Ikazuchi type profile. It has a little thicker spine, but still similarly thin behind the edge grind. With acidic produce the blue2 steel has a little better edge retention than the White2, but Wakui and Kashima Sanjo will have better F&F.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Thanks! The tanaka looks good as well. What about Blue 2 vs AS? Would AS be considered more prone to chipping?
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,434
Reaction score
774
Location
Hawaii
Any knife with very thin edge can chip with improper use for that type of knife. These gyuto cut fruit, vegetables, meat without bone very well with little resistance. That said they are tougher than you would think. I chop cut all the time with thin edge knives. You don't want to twist or cut things like lobster with them. A little common sense knife care.

I preferred thin edge knives in a pro kitchen many years they just cut better with speed.
Easy to touch up & carbon steel. Also had knives & cleavers at work for tougher jobs.

I know persons in pro kitchens using Ikazuchi &
Tanaka blue lite both are used a lot.
 

big_adventure

What impulse control?
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2021
Messages
718
Reaction score
930
Location
Paris
Thanks! The tanaka looks good as well. What about Blue 2 vs AS? Would AS be considered more prone to chipping?
The difference is quite small. AS is slightly harder and has somewhat more carbides which makes it slightly more likely to chip, but in actual, practical use, there's not really much difference between the two, and AS will hold an edge better in a kitchen. Neither will survive being slammed against bones or rocks particularly well.
 

Checkpure

Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
261
Reaction score
323
Location
Connecticut
Both the Wakui and Kashima Sanjo (made by Yoshikane) are very solid options. Can't really go wrong with either.

One more option could be this S. Tanaka. It has a Ikazuchi type profile. It has a little thicker spine, but still similarly thin behind the edge grind. With acidic produce the blue2 steel has a little better edge retention than the White2, but Wakui and Kashima Sanjo will have better F&F.
This seems like a damn good deal. Also I'd recommend a Shapton Pro/Glass or Naniwa Pro over the king 1k/6k (I have one and will be selling/giving it away). Start with a 1k stone or pony up for a solid three stone set.
 

M1k3

Ah hell! give me a white wine spritzer!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
5,204
Reaction score
6,694
I used to have an Ikazuchi. Decent knife. Then I got a Gengetsu. Difference in profile aside and me choosing semi-stainless, it was everything I wish the Ikazuchi was.

Wakui and Tanaka (Knives and Stones sells them with extra attention to fit and finish) would be good choices for not as flat profiles.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
I used to have an Ikazuchi. Decent knife. Then I got a Gengetsu. Difference in profile aside and me choosing semi-stainless, it was everything I wish the Ikazuchi was.

Wakui and Tanaka (Knives and Stones sells them with extra attention to fit and finish) would be good choices for not as flat profiles.
Performance wise, why would you prefer the gengetsu?
Any clue on how the gengetsu compares with the yoshikane amekiri as well?
 

daveb

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
12,234
Reaction score
4,276
The Amekiri to me is a very close 2nd to the Gengetsu. For all practical purposes I doubt you could tell the difference. Best "off the shelf" knives available. (And the Kashima Sanjo (Yoshi) is right up there as well)
 

M1k3

Ah hell! give me a white wine spritzer!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
5,204
Reaction score
6,694
Performance wise, why would you prefer the gengetsu?
Great cutting performance, especially on dense stuff. Good enough food release. Thin tip, some meat at the heel. And doesn't have that curved spine/sori going on. The burnt chestnut handle is nice also.
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,434
Reaction score
774
Location
Hawaii
Great cutting performance, especially on dense stuff. Good enough food release. Thin tip, some meat at the heel. And doesn't have that curved spine/sori going on. The burnt chestnut handle is nice also.
Second this it's out of stock though at JKI.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Awesome! I'll keep a lookout for these knives. Currently inching towards the Amekiri for performance and aesthetics, and Ikazuchi for the 'laser and AS experience'. Although if the Gengetsu comes back in stock before these, I might just go for it. It seems to have quite a following.
However, wouldn't a laser like the Ikazuchi deal better with dense stuff?
 

M1k3

Ah hell! give me a white wine spritzer!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
5,204
Reaction score
6,694
The grind on the Ikazuchi isn't as nice as the Gengetsu. There's a slight hollow behind the edge that I found to be a little sticky, suction effect, especially with dense food. I added some convexity and removed the hollow.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
I'll keep that in mind, thanks! Keeping my fingers crossed that they don't sell out the moment they come back in stock.
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
4,434
Reaction score
774
Location
Hawaii
If you leave email Jon will let you know when they come in.

Kochi is another but they are sold out too. The stainless clad KU finish is very nice. Also has the burnt chestnut handle. They run taller good for chopping.

The grind on the Gengetsu is superb a joy to cut with.
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
Kevin from JKI just gotten back to me with a list of suggestions. The Kochi does look interesting too. Anybody has had any experience with it?
 

Vaerion

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
1
Location
USA
The Amekiri to me is a very close 2nd to the Gengetsu. For all practical purposes I doubt you could tell the difference. Best "off the shelf" knives available. (And the Kashima Sanjo (Yoshi) is right up there as well)
Dave, any idea if there's a difference in ease of sharpening and maintaining the thinness behind cutting edge between the Gengetsu and Yoshikane/Amekiri? The amekiri seems to be a wide bevel, and the Gengetsu convex? Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, new to the various geometries of JKnives.

P.s. Thank you all for the insights!
 
Top