Passing the hanging hair test off a coarse stone (120)

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Is that a hair, or a thin rope

Definitely thick hair. The top comment under the video asked the same question and he replied it's his mom's long hair... Anyway, it's a global knife which many claim as crappy HT.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Probably depends a lot on how thin the knife is and the kind of wood, I just pulled this one through a piece of camphor about 30 times and it's maybe even sharper than before. But admittedly I've made it very thin, and it's not a global, which I find impossible to sharpen to even a vaguely usable level at the best of times!

That's impressive. I gotta learn how to do it. I haven't been able to pass HHT off stones under 3k grit so there's a long way to go for me.

 

[inferno]

why do you even test this ****? i've sharpened razors on a spyderco UF. and it wont pass this test but it shaves like ****ing crazy. go figure. better than all my waterstones.
this is a BS test if you ask me.

 

[kayman67]

That's because good shaving has nothing to do with HHT. That's another myth with blades in general.

 

[cotedupy]

That's impressive. I gotta learn how to do it. I haven't been able to pass HHT off stones under 3k grit so there's a long way to go for me.

Ah I'm slightly cheating tbh... this is my test knife, I probably use it more for trying out new stones than cooking. I scuff the edge up on sandpaper then see how quickly a stone will restore it. And so that it doesn't take too long I've made the knife excessively thin, it wouldn't hold up very well with prolonged use I don't expect.

To give an idea of how thin this is at the edge - it's a 150mm Petty, maybe 2mm spine at the heel, 1.5mm at the bottom of this picture:

 

[cotedupy]

why do you even test this ****? i've sharpened razors on a spyderco UF. and it wont pass this test but it shaves like ****ing crazy. go figure. better than all my waterstones.
this is a BS test if you ask me.

Sh*ts 'n' giggles!

 

[natto]

why do you even test this ****? i've sharpened razors on a spyderco UF. and it wont pass this test but it shaves like ****ing crazy. go figure. better than all my waterstones.
this is a BS test if you ask me.

To me it's testing what I can achieve on a given stone, nothing about working edges.

 

[Kawa]

That's because good shaving has nothing to do with HHT. That's another myth with blades in general.

Could you explain a little bit?

 

[stringer]

Could you explain a little bit?

It is possible to have a very clean, tight, comfortable shave with blade that doesn't pass the HHT. On the other hand, it is possible to have a razor that easily passes the HHT but delivers a shave that is too harsh or doesn't cut stubble close or that doesn't have a full clean bevel.

HHT for razors is kind of like a paper test for knives. The value of the test is not intrinsic but instead relies on the skills and experience of the sharpener to interpret the results in a given situation.

 

[kayman67]

Excellent shaves have been reported again and again with razors that would not do great with HHT and the opposite with blades that "would split hairs before they would touch the apex". It has something to do with the way edges interact with hair and skin. You don't just cut hair. You can "shave" some skin layers and also the way the blade leaves the hair cut has an effect later on, that can get quite unpleasant.
This brings us to comfortable great edges and such, that sometimes don't even pass HHT.

 

[Kawa]

Hard to imagine, but I don't shave with a straight razor.
I was thinking that the more refined an edge was, the better for a smooth shave.
I was also thinking that a clean, refined edge was what is needed for a HHT.

Appearently there is more to this thx for explaining

 

[Luftmensch]

Hard to imagine, but I don't shave with a straight razor.
I was thinking that the more refined an edge was, the better for a smooth shave.
I was also thinking that a clean, refined edge was what is needed for a HHT.

Appearently there is more to this thx for explaining

The Suehiro Gokumyo 20k isn't talked about much in these parts. It is an absurdly high grit stone that has more appeal in the straight razor community. It produces very highly polished edges but *I* found it reduced comfort - a 'harsh' shave if you will. To be fair... I never spent a whole lot of time 'learning' the stone. Anyway, subjective experience aside, I tend to think what @kayman67 says is likely true:

You don't just cut hair. You can "shave" some skin layers

A comfortable shave isnt necessarily the 'sharpest' blade possible! You want it to be sharp enough to cut hair effortlessly without aggravating the skin. In the shaving world, there is a huge amount of pseudoscience and speculation surrounding edge quality. A lot of this is used in the natural stones vs synthetic stones debate. For instance, there is speculation that a higher grit variation in natural stones creates a slightly irregular edge. And that the slurry creates mildly rounded over edges. Both leading to edges that are 'smoother' and less demanding of technique (aka a duller apex?).

I haven't poked my head into the debate for a long time. I dont think there is a broadly accepted definitive answer? But suffice to say, there is a long history of anecdotal evidence that seems to suggest that higher grits do not always result in more comfortable shaves... and conversely, good shaves can be achieved without putting in a crazy amount of effort.

 

[inferno]

just want to add that i dont think luftmenchs results are BS. this is good work imo.

just wanted to say pretty much what stringer said.

you can have a razor that passes the hht but shaves very harsh, and you can have one that doesn't and still shaves very good.

these days i dont even do the hht test anymore. i just test shave. and then i know within a second if its gonna work or not. hht or not.

-----

just a little anecdote. i have tried sharpening my iwasaki kamisori on basically every stone i own but only one stone makes it shave. and its the UF. and i can shave straight off the stone. no stropping, no nothing. but its not gonna pass the hht. yet it still works.

so i'm not really concerned about passing the hht test with razors at least.

also i have tried shaving after the dmt 325/C and this easily passes the hht but its quite harsh imo. but it works. its not like the shapton 12k if you know what i mean. but it works and passes the hht. but its not good. and thats why i feel the hht is a one trick pony. and while this test usually gives you an indication that you actually can shave with the razor its no guarantee.

and this of coarse depends on you wanted level of comfort. i can technically shave off a 1k stone. but its not gonna be that pleasant if you know what i mean.