Petty or Honesuki?

[latetotheparty]

Now that I have gotten some of the gyutos that I've been looking for, I need to transition to some of my other needs in the kitchen.

I needs dome advice in getting either a petty or honeuski. The current task I would use it for:

Silverskin/Meat Trimming
Whole Chicken/Duck breakdowns
Garlic/Shallot/Small Peppers

My gut tells me that a 150mm petty should be capable of breaking down a chicken or duck, but I much prefer the experiences that y'all have had in using these knives.

 

[daveb]

a 180mm petty should be excellent for silverskin / meat trimming, very capable of breaking down a chicken or duck, perfect for garlic/shallot/any peppers, citrus (esp if stainless) and a host of other tasks.

Fixed that for you...

 

[rickbern]

Dave's usually right.

I have a 150 petty, I just bought a new one, 165, it's much more useful. I probably should've held out, gone all the way to the 180 but for sure the 150 now seems skimpy for a lot of things with no real advantages in "nimbleness" to offset it.

 

[latetotheparty]

@daveb @rickbern that would have been my question between 150mm-180mm. I wasn't sure if 30mm length would make a difference in nimbleness or not. I guess the other factor would be the height of a petty and seeing if there's significance between 30-34mm & 35+mm

 

[btbyrd]

You can break down birds with a petty, but it's often difficult to do normal prep with a honesuki because of the bevel and thickness of the blade. If I could only have one, it'd probably be a 165-180mm petty.

 

[btbyrd]

And since you can often have two, I'd get a nice petty and a beater honesuki. There are decent ones for well under $100.

 

[Cliff]

There's no question that petties are more versatile. Size is a personal preference. I've got a few 150's with different profiles and a couple of 210's. I love my Honesuki -- a no frills Masahiro carbon -- for trimming, scoring fish (I keep it with a toothy edge), and a handful of tasks where a stout, nimble blade is in order. I could do any of those things with a regular petty.

 

[latetotheparty]

And since you can often have two, I'd get a nice petty and a beater honesuki. There are decent ones for well under $100.

I am sure that will eventually happen to me. Doing my best to stay on budget and expand my collection in a certain order. So many temptations to buy atm

 

[Heckel7302]

Silverskin/Meat Trimming-tossup, but longer petty probably wins here
Whole Chicken/Duck breakdowns-Honesuki is great at this, obviously. Petty, meh.
Garlic/Shallot/Small Peppers-Honesuki is terrible at this. I don't think petty is particularly good at them either, but maybe that's just me. I definitely prefer a gyuto for all three.

 

[YannR]

Best is to have both 150mm and 180mm
Breaking with a 150 beater yo handled
And 180 for more precise work like trimming and for the cuts of small pieces.
Already recommanded but kono hd2 petty 180

 

[Cliff]

Best is to have both 150mm and 180mm
Breaking with a 150 beater yo handled
And 180 for more precise work like trimming and for the cuts of small pieces.
Already recommanded but kono hd2 petty 180

What else do you use the beater 150 for?

ETA - I like to trim with a honesuki

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I've had a 150 and my current 165 honesuki. Love 'em! I think they're freaking cool and I love breaking down birds with one. That said, that's about where the versatility ends. Yes, people use them for other things but they really are a specialty knife.

I've broken down birds with all kinds of knives to include a 115mm petty and up to 210 gytuo's. I much prefer a honesuki for the task but of course not required.

I don't tend to use petties for garlic and such and just use my standard knife of choice for the meal prep.

I wouldn't overlook something like an F. Dick boning knife for silver skin and meat trimming. If you opt for a non-flexible one (my preference) they're pretty good for birds too. Can be had for under $20. Not sexy but effective.

But, all that said, a petty will of course offer the most versatility.

But there are other options such as this guy:

https://knifejapan.com/kono-uchihamono-toku-sei-santoku-bocho-150mm-aogami-1/
Or maybe a shorter funayuki:
https://knifejapan.com/knives/funayuki/
Maybe not the best for silver skin but a little more board versatile than many petties.

Just tossing out some more ideas.

 

[YannR]

What else do you use the beater 150 for?

ETA - I like to trim with a honesuki

I do all the birds with, talking about all sizes.
I'm using it for several board tasks too, citrus, ... ( it's a bit a go to for all little tasks)
But i am never "slicing" with it; too short and a bit thicker BTE than others i have.

 

[Qapla']

Another knife type idea: What do you think of this?

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mivgbu161.html

 

[Jovidah]

Just my 2 cents:
-A honesuki is great fun and works really well for butchering poultry, and maybe other actual boning, but not much else. It sucks as a petty. Sucks as a silverskinner / trimming knife, it even sucks as a cheese knife.
-As much fun as a honesuki is, no one needs one. While ideally one uses something that has a narrow nimble tip, just about any knife that has one can do the job just fine (whether it's a paring knife, fillet knife, traditional boning knife or a box cutter). In the end it's more about understanding anatomy.
-You don't really need a petty for cutting smaller veggies either. If you can't do it with a 210 gyuto you're not really going to do a better job with a petty (regardless of size). The problem in combining these requests is that for boning / trimming work you want something with the least blade height, while for board work you'd want something with more blade height.
-For trimming, you want length + low blade height. The lower the blade height the better IMO. Thin pointy tip is also mandatory.
-Perhaps more controversially, that also means that so far I've been underwhelmed by using Japanese petties (yes, even my 210 ginga) for trimming work. Yes they do a fine job.... but I'm struggling to see how they do a better job than classical western filleting knives (that are a billion times cheaper).

If I had to pick one knife in my arsenal for all my protein work it would actually be my boring and dull Mora Companion Fishing Fillet 155. Not my 210 ginga petty. Not my 180 petty. Not my honesuki. The cheap Mora. It bones, it fillets, it trims. It even does fish! What more could you want?

 

[Cliff]

I think part of the answer also is whether one prefers a stiff or flexible blade

 

[Wagnum]

Fixed that for you...

I made the mistake of getting the Ashi 150. It's measured from the handle and even if it was measured from the heel 150 still ended up too short for me, more of a pairing knife. So depending on how it's measured a 210 might be better

 

[Cliff]

Yes, the Ashi 150 feels pretty short to me, too -- and it's not a tall blade, so it feels even smaller.

 

[blokey]

A single bevel honesuki can be quite fun, I commissioned a monster of a Honesuki/Garasuki from Ma Kaida, a Chinese black smith, then send it to another knife maker for a bit of refinement and deeper ura, it cost a bit but it is really nice on board. Pic is in its original states, still in the shop for now.

 

[DitmasPork]

Now that I have gotten some of the gyutos that I've been looking for, I need to transition to some of my other needs in the kitchen.

I needs dome advice in getting either a petty or honeuski. The current task I would use it for:

Silverskin/Meat Trimming
Whole Chicken/Duck breakdowns
Garlic/Shallot/Small Peppers

My gut tells me that a 150mm petty should be capable of breaking down a chicken or duck, but I much prefer the experiences that y'all have had in using these knives.

Hands down a petty is a no-brainer, essential for its versatility. No worries, hanging out in kkf you’ll soon find yourself finding a ‘need’ for every j-knife type under the sun, in addition to more gyutos.
That said, I love my honesuki, but consider it a very specialized knife, just for poultry.

 

[latetotheparty]

Update on this thread for anyone in the the future with a similar question:

I bought a Konosuke HD2 Petty 180mm (edge length roughly 170mm) & Shibata Koutetsu Ko-Bunka 135mm (edge length 140mm).

Here is my opinion as a home cook:

Main thing I used it so far was fat trimming, silverskin, and slicing small cherry tomatoes. The main differences besides length would be blade height & flex.

Konosuke is 29.6mm blade height from heel and has slight flex from the 1/2 - 1/3 of tip.
Shibata is 41mm blade height from heel and is a stiff blade throughout.

-Cut of beef I used was beef cheeks and water buffalo flap/skirt steaks. I used both knives on the cuts of meat.

• Konosuke was great on silverskin on flap/skirts. It was nice having the extra length and using the whole edge. The slight flex helped me out in getting underneath the difficult parts of the silverskin.
• Shibata was better for beef cheek fat IMO. Fat on the beef cheek I buy is difficult to trim and having the stiffness was beneficial as well as the k-tip helping out. Felt like I had more control using it
• You could pick your poison on either for tomatoes. The difference is blade height for your personal preference in knives. Both were equal to me besides drawing blood on my ring finger with the Konosuke. It was a simple and easy task so this to me is not a factor in deciding

I have yet to break down a chicken/duck as I still procrastinate on buying any whole birds. I will try to update in the future on a comparison for whole bird breakdown. I will also be testing more smaller vegs and some fruits when everything is ready to pick from my garden.

I still cannot decide which one I prefer more, they both have their benefits.

Take my opinion/review with a grain of salt as a home cook. There are people on KKF that have more years of experience than I have probably been alive.