"PM sent"- should this be taken out of BST

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Tristan

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My opinion on the matter is that members shouldn't shill for others.
On PM sent, I've learned not to let it stop me from making offers.
Would be good to see though a substantiation of PM content, so others and OT can decide if there is merit in bothering.
1. PM sent (lowball offer)
2. PM sent (questions)
3. PM sent (I'll take it payment incoming)
 

M1k3

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I appreciate the PM sent. It means I dont have to agonize over buying the knife anymore. My response thus far has always been "thank god."

Plus, it's not worth policing people over.
But what if it's just that. PM sent. And the PM was just asking about specs. And those specs don't meet the messagers needs so then it sits there? The horror!
 

JakeLoveshighCarbon

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But what if it's just that. PM sent. And the PM was just asking about specs. And those specs don't meet the messagers needs so then it sits there? The horror!
*shrug* you're right of course. One should negotiate without stating PM sent. It's not a cool thing to do, but it hasn't bothered me so far.
 

ModRQC

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Two knives sold lately. Not any of the two after a "PM sent". Did get a "PM sent". Never got an answer after answering. Knife is still up for sale. Someone else has PM me about it - without saying so in my post. He could probably be a more serious buyer is my first instinct.

I don't care either way, I was on a forum once where "PM sent" was a time binder, and unless the buyer obviously wasn't serious, it meant that the seller had to give first PM priority. Borderline excessive but this had come up after a big fight and was devised in a way to make it understand that it was a mean to avoid confusion around an item for sale. If the item was really wanted, PM sent was very closely followed with Sold most of the times. When it didn't, people simply inquired on the thread if the item was still for sale, and PM sent could be added as to create a second time binder if nothing came out of the first.
 

ma_sha1

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Other hobby forum I’ve been with use public posting of “I’ll take it” & discourage PM deals which breeds monkey business at times. It’s a more fare system to the buyers IMHO.

KKF PM transaction dominated system took me a while to get used to, but it’s a system that gives seller an upper hand in multiple ways. It’s not a first come first serve culture.

If the seller realized price was listed too low due to multiple offers, seller can withdraw & realist later.

If the seller saw a repeat buyer PM, he may pick that person to cut the line for reduced transaction risk.

It also encourages buyers to submit high offer to cut the line if it’s something that he really wants & the sellers could end up selling at higher than asking price.

In a nutshell, KKF PM culture system is pro seller, where other systems are pro buyer. Depends on which side you are on, you may like or dislike. For someone like me, doing 50:50 one knife in one knife out, it doesn’t matter either way.
 

AFKitchenknivesguy

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This isn't Walmart, the seller can sell to whom or for whatever they want. Not sure why fairness is relevant, my observations are the vast majority of members have the best intentions so I give them the benefit of the doubt...instead of assuming the worst.
 

ma_sha1

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This isn't Walmart, the seller can sell to whom or for whatever they want. Not sure why fairness is relevant, my observations are the vast majority of members have the best intentions so I give them the benefit of the doubt...instead of assuming the worst.
I agree in KKF at the moment, that seller can sell to whoever they want, it’s because the forum’s current pro-seller policy, Walmart reference is irrelevant.

In making my points, I’ve only selected three examples that I personally experienced, those were not assumptions.

However, at end of the day, the OP’s questions really belong to Forum owners/admins, who run a forum with greater concerns in mind. Frankly speaking, your opinions don’t mean much, neither are mine.

If one would ask, strategically for KKF, what policy, pro-seller or pro-buyer, would stimulate the greater membership growth & long term health?

I’d look at the most successful C to C direct selling platform, eBay, for answers. The policy in place at eBay is clearly pro-buyer, like it or not, call it flea bay if you wish, it’s still #1.
 

AFKitchenknivesguy

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I agree this topic is the mods/owners decision, not ours. Not seeing what you mean by the Walmart analogy. The FTC doesn't have control over the private market, unlike Walmart, hence the analogy. It is relevant.
 

cotedupy

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As a new member I had no idea about any of these various meanings.

I wrote 'pm sent' or similar when buying a knife recently, and then was a bit surprised when someone afterwards said they wanted to buy the same. I had just assumed it was a way of saying I was happy to buy the knife at the price (rather than trying to make some kind of deal).

So it might then be an idea to put something in the BST Guidelines explaining that it doesn't always mean a deal is done.
 

Barmoley

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Why is everyone adding meaning to a simple two word phrase. The message is clear pm was sent, why some people post this and some don't I don't know, but what is there to discuss? Interested in an item contact the seller, what is so hard about it?
 
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SHOWERDOOKIE

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i feel excluded when people post pm sent because i didnt send one. :(
I feel like this captures the nature of any issues people have with someone saying ‘pm sent’ in that the issues would probably be organic to the situation. Any arguing points are opinion based behind the connotation you had when you publicly stated that you already privately messaged someone
 

M1k3

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Just what @ian was looking for.
PM sent. I'll take it.
 

Mariner

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In another BST forum "PM sent" is required for several reasons:
  1. It provides a public record of transactions and attempted transactions.
  2. Bad actors are easier to spot - if a buyer is repeatedly sending a ridiculous lowball offer in PM and getting rejected, mods of that forum can reach out and investigate.
  3. Conversely, it prevents bad actors on the seller side. When a seller is repeatedly selling to a late reply it can be a signal they're looking for a dupe. Or that earlier replies got nervous but didn't have evidence directly of a scam to report to mods.
 

Barmoley

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In another BST forum "PM sent" is required for several reasons:
  1. It provides a public record of transactions and attempted transactions.
  2. Bad actors are easier to spot - if a buyer is repeatedly sending a ridiculous lowball offer in PM and getting rejected, mods of that forum can reach out and investigate.
  3. Conversely, it prevents bad actors on the seller side. When a seller is repeatedly selling to a late reply it can be a signal they're looking for a dupe. Or that earlier replies got nervous but didn't have evidence directly of a scam to report to mods.
2 and 3 don't make sense to me. What is wrong with sending lowball offers. Some people are looking for deals, don't take it personally. I've received many low ball offers for many knives I've sold. I don't take it personally just don't sell if the price is lower than what I am willing to take. 3 also what is wrong with a seller waiting if the seller wants to look at many offers. There is no rule that a seller has to sell to the first offer even if at asking price. It would be nice and most sellers follow this practice, but there is no such rule as far as I know.
 

valdim

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Like everything else, today's "PM sent" is not what it meants to be.
For one it just means " I sent a pm", for others it means "Dont even think to offer something, I already closed the deal", for third it means "Well....another donkey....Let me see what the next donkey would offer..."
From forum owners/moderator's perspective, I guess it means "Business goes on, that means everyting is OK". I guess.

We should not forget that fairness is a basic principle. Would you be happy with a knife (or the money from a knife) after you did not act fair? Well, if the answer is positive, whatever anyone say about the "PM sent", you will find a reason to defend another point.
If the answer is negative, then you know when and how to use "PM sent".
 
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M1k3

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The only thing that should stop a buyer from interacting with the seller is when the seller says it's sold/spf/withdrawn/etc.
 
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