Polishing starter kit

[JPAU]

Hello all!

I had a great deal of success with a similar post earlier in the year, in which I asked for assistance from the experts on the forum in selecting a sharpening progression. I have since sharpened dozens of knives and had great success with the stones selected with the assistance of those who contributed. I am very grateful. Apparently a number of other novices derived value from the post too

I am now considering taking up polishing for a bit of fun. Amateur level - not diving in too hard initially (ie not going to acquire a $3000+ stable of natural etc. for now). I have read many posts and threads about polishing and do not intend to repeat the same material or ask open ended questions answered elsewhere (although overlap is inevitable with such a vast forum and diversity of posts made over time). Rather, with the assistance of past posts and videos (especially a couple made by @milangravier) I have narrowed down some potential stones to assist me in setting geometry, polishing scratches out and finishing with a kasumi. Most are synthetics and the emphasis for now is on setting the foundations with synthetics. I have kindly been offered some natural stone koppas at a fair price… they’re for later… frankly I am happy to spend the next 6 months focusing on geometry setting and scratch removal using synthetics. They’re the skills that I want to nail before getting to the super satisfying / superficial polishing.

The issue is that I have encountered quite a few similar stones at similar grits and feel overwhelmed. I would appreciate your help to select a progression / combination of them, or at least narrow it down please.

Without further ado, here is the shortlist:

Coarse

• Naniwa Chosera 400
• Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 400
• Shapton Pro 220
• Shapton Rockstar 320
• JNS220

Low

• Naniwa Chosera 600 or 800 or 1000
• Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 1000
• JNS 800

Mid

• Naniwa Chosera 2000 or 3000
• Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 3000
• JNS Red Aoto

High

• Kitayama 8000
• JNS 6000
• Naniwa Chosera 5000
• Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 5000

… then onward to a couple of natural koppas and / or finger stones to play with polish (again - not concerned about this initially)

Any thoughts or pointers would be appreciated!!

 

[Just a DK]

Tbh as a fellow noob… you can get a kasumi on 800 grit stones that you can live with.

Getting a happy 800 grit polish might be a good start.

 

[Bico Doce]

8k is probably a bit high. Maybe transition to naturals after 5/6k.

I prefer harder synthetic stones for a bit more precision. I like the Chosera line but the 400 is too fine to do heavy lifting.

 

[JPAU]

8k is probably a bit high. Maybe transition to naturals after 5/6k.

I prefer harder synthetic stones for a bit more precision. I like the Chosera line but the 400 is too fine to do heavy lifting.

Thanks! are the naniwa lines comparable?

Any recommendation for the low grit for heavy lifting? Have heard JNS220 is good and read mixed things about the Debado 180.

 

[Bico Doce]

Thanks! are the naniwa lines comparable?

Any recommendation for the low grit for heavy lifting? Have heard JNS220 is good and read mixed things about the Debado 180.

Not sure about the naniwa line overall. I prefer the naniwa aotoshi to the chosera 2k. Has a really pleasant feel. The 3k is firm amd can leave a decent kasumi on its own. Does a great job of cleaning the core steel.

I have the debado 180 and it was difficult to clean the scratches with the Chosera 400. I needed the debado 320 in between. I found it difficult to erase the scratches of the 180 even when I was using the same stone in a different direction. There were occasional scratches that were just deeper than the rest.

The only coarse stone I’ve enjoyed is the from the nsk line. All of the others you just have to accept it’s not a good experience in terms of feel and dishing.

 

[JPAU]

Not sure about the naniwa line overall. I prefer the naniwa aotoshi to the chosera 2k. Has a really pleasant feel. The 3k is firm amd can leave a decent kasumi on its own. Does a great job of cleaning the core steel.

I have the debado 180 and it was difficult to clean the scratches with the Chosera 400. I needed the debado 320 in between. I found it difficult to erase the scratches of the 180 even when I was using the same stone in a different direction. There were occasional scratches that were just deeper than the rest.

The only coarse stone I’ve enjoyed is the from the nsk line. All of the others you just have to accept it’s not a good experience in terms of feel and dishing.

Noted re green brick of joy!

 

[Dull_Apex]

Do you have a diamond plate already? Forcing a slurry can change the behaviour of whichever stones you go with

 

[Luminaire]

If you're open to more expensive, FSK 400 vitrified diamond is expensive but is actually enjoyable to use and absolutely one of the fastest stones I've ever seen for material removal. Plus it doesnt leave horrible scratches because its 400 grit

 

[mengwong]

Welcome to Step 3 on the

polishing journey...

1. Lusting over other people's work.
2. Getting all jazzed up about giving it a try.
3. Plugging a couple gaps in the equipment lineup to at least have a decent start.

 

[JPAU]

Do you have a diamond plate already? Forcing a slurry can change the behaviour of whichever stones you go with

Yes I do - Atoma 140 I think.

 

[JPAU]

If you're open to more expensive, FSK 400 vitrified diamond is expensive but is actually enjoyable to use and absolutely one of the fastest stones I've ever seen for material removal. Plus it doesnt leave horrible scratches because its 400 grit

I think it’s a bit out of range for a starter kit. I’m just looking to spend a few hundred dollars and see whether I take to it.

 

[mengwong]

I have a

100u

nano-hone 100 diamond resin gathering dust.

If you’d like to try it I’ll happily ship it out to you as an indefinite loaner

 

[ryans_knives]

Will be nice to have an Aussie I can send my knives to for some TLC. I hope you absolutely fall in love with it

 

[JPAU]

That very generous of you! I will message separately! Thanks!l so much!!

 

[JPAU]

Will be nice to have an Aussie I can send my knives to for some TLC. I hope you absolutely fall in love with it

Me too. Always looking for knives to sharpen after I learned to sharpen - all of mine are sharp enough to cut paper towel easily so I started offering to sharpen for friends and family hahaha

 

[milangravier]

Nice I could help in your journey.

About stones to choose for your progression, I would also advise to not try looking for better stones on and on and on. I am doing this too often (because I always look for better stones, but actually only in the 120/400 category now) and honestly it can be counterproductive : Your previous 200 grit stone was easily erased by your 400, but now you changed your 200 for a faster one, your 400 won't erase the scratches as easily, so you start looking for a stone in between, or another 400, but then you change your 400 so it's not that right to then jump to the 600 or 800, so then you need a new one, etc etc... End less party that can be not fun, because of the money and time spent to look for stones instead of actually sharpening/polishing, but even more because while you polish you break your habits and things that were working maybe not as fast as you wish are now not working at all.
Stone polish TAKES TIME. If you don't want that, there is ways like not using stones at all, or like having your surface clean around the hard steel then everything above just less corectly executed so then you can hide all the mess with fingerstones. (Sorry I am a little too rude here : to do that kind of polishing is totally ok, and can give great great result in less time, but it's just a different game in my opinion).

I would personaly try to stick to one brand : because even they were not created for polishing knives first but sharpening, the brand have created stones that generally work together and it's generally more easy to jump from one grit to another within same line & brand of stones.
For 100/200 grit stones, you can have different stones, because those are so specific and most brand are not making great stone in that range, or even don't make it at all (naniwa pro) : for those I would advise to invest in diamond stones like Nsk or venev or hk.knifeworks or triple hand (not tested) or FSK (not tested) or naniwa diamond 400 (can be a good start, even if it will be slower than a 200). Don't know if there is more than those 6 brands. Those diamond stones give great control : hard enough to scratch only where stone touch so not messy and hard enough/abrasive type to burnish the bevel so it's all clear if you have low spots, or not erased a bigger scratch, or if you have too much convexity on one spot.
400 to 5k : then your shape is done, you only need very little adjustments and refining surface. Just choose stones in same brand and that you are confortable to use.
From 3k, if you work on san mai with iron clad : the 3k scratches should be easily erased by the mid soft prefinisher natural stones you will use. So if you grab any stone finer than that for your progression, consider it to clean the hard core steel but not to work the iron because it is useless.

Then you use natural stones : honestly, if you want to polish knives and take as much time as some of us do, something like 4 to 6 hours (and more) polishing one knife : just buy a natural stone. Some koppas or irregular stone why not. Stick to a budget so you don't go crazy like some of us. Then all the work you have patiently done can have a reward in my opinion : the way natural stones works on a clean surface, smooth as hell and then the finish they give with a very balance not screaming finish, lot of elegance in my opinion.

 

[JPAU]

Nice I could help in your journey.

About stones to choose for your progression, I would also advise to not try looking for better stones on and on and on. I am doing this too often (because I always look for better stones, but actually only in the 120/400 category now) and honestly it can be counterproductive : Your previous 200 grit stone was easily erased by your 400, but now you changed your 200 for a faster one, your 400 won't erase the scratches as easily, so you start looking for a stone in between, or another 400, but then you change your 400 so it's not that right to then jump to the 600 or 800, so then you need a new one, etc etc... End less party that can be not fun, because of the money and time spent to look for stones instead of actually sharpening/polishing, but even more because while you polish you break your habits and things that were working maybe not as fast as you wish are now not working at all.
Stone polish TAKES TIME. If you don't want that, there is ways like not using stones at all, or like having your surface clean around the hard steel then everything above just less corectly executed so then you can hide all the mess with fingerstones. (Sorry I am a little too rude here : to do that kind of polishing is totally ok, and can give great great result in less time, but it's just a different game in my opinion).

I would personaly try to stick to one brand : because even they were not created for polishing knives first but sharpening, the brand have created stones that generally work together and it's generally more easy to jump from one grit to another within same line & brand of stones.
For 100/200 grit stones, you can have different stones, because those are so specific and most brand are not making great stone in that range, or even don't make it at all (naniwa pro) : for those I would advise to invest in diamond stones like Nsk or venev or hk.knifeworks or triple hand (not tested) or FSK (not tested) or naniwa diamond 400 (can be a good start, even if it will be slower than a 200). Don't know if there is more than those 6 brands. Those diamond stones give great control : hard enough to scratch only where stone touch so not messy and hard enough/abrasive type to burnish the bevel so it's all clear if you have low spots, or not erased a bigger scratch, or if you have too much convexity on one spot.
400 to 5k : then your shape is done, you only need very little adjustments and refining surface. Just choose stones in same brand and that you are confortable to use.
From 3k, if you work on san mai with iron clad : the 3k scratches should be easily erased by the mid soft prefinisher natural stones you will use. So if you grab any stone finer than that for your progression, consider it to clean the hard core steel but not to work the iron because it is useless.

Then you use natural stones : honestly, if you want to polish knives and take as much time as some of us do, something like 4 to 6 hours (and more) polishing one knife : just buy a natural stone. Some koppas or irregular stone why not. Stick to a budget so you don't go crazy like some of us. Then all the work you have patiently done can have a reward in my opinion : the way natural stones works on a clean surface, smooth as hell and then the finish they give with a very balance not screaming finish, lot of elegance in my opinion.

Thank you! This is so rich with wisdom and information to digest. Extremely helpful

 

[milangravier]

Thank you! This is so rich with wisdom and information to digest. Extremely helpful

Oh and If you want to stick to synthetic kasumi for now, it's totally ok of course. I am not an expert in that area but king 800 is often bring up. I do have good kasumi finish with Naniwa pro 2k. Bester 6k/8k are stones that will work correct for that use too. Morihei stones (that were made a bit for that, because mixed with natural stone powder) are really below the expectations in my opinon.

 

[JPAU]

Thank you again @milangravier ! Also very helpful!

Right now, based in the advice above, I am thinking of acquiring:

1. Shapton Pro 220 (it is cheap, may as well grab it)
2. Naniwa diamond 400 (and assume I do not need Chosera 400 if I have this?)
3. Naniwa Chosera 800 or 1000
4. Naniwa Green Brick of Joy 2000 (or Chosera 2000 if substantially cheaper)
5. Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 5000
6. Uchi koppa
7. Maybe one other koppa

I want to emphasise that I plan to spend the vast majority (and initially, all) of my time with the first 3 stones. From what I understand, when I am confident setting the bevels and removing the deep scratches, I’m more than 70% of the way home.

Open to feedback!

 

[milangravier]

1. I did not like the shapton pro 220 : too weak, too soft
2. Naniwa diamond 400 can be your first stone
3. You may not need the chosera 400 but I would advise the chosera 600 after diamond 400.
4. Then I would use the 1k instead of the 800 that I don't really like (all that is personnal taste I guess)
5. Big brick of joy I don't know but afer 1k I would use 3k chosera
6. Naniwa Tsuyoshiken 5000, I don't know it but if it is same as chosera, it can work well to clean the core steel.
7. Uchi koppa is good choice, others too.

 

[OkayMode]

7. Uchi koppa is good choice, others too.

@JPAU to maximise your value for money with a natural stone purchase, I would recommend not zeroing in on ‘uchi’ or ‘suita’ etc, instead finding some reputable stone slingers and explaining your experience along with what you’re wanting to achieve with the stone.

They should then be able to make some suggestions with stones that may not have the name pedigree of a specific mine or stone strata (like ‘Ohira Uchi’ for example), but are capable of providing the exact results you’re looking for at a pretty friendly price.

Enjoy!

 

[JPAU]

Understood, thank you @OkayMode

 

[kujaku]

The Naniwa Goken(not Tsuyoshiken) include several series such as Arata, Pro, Muso, Kagayaki, Hayabusa, and Fuji. Arata is a miniaturized version of Chosera, with the base removed. Compared to Chosera, it is significantly more affordable.
The Pro and Muso produce a brighter kasumi than King. Kagayaki, Hayabusa, and Fuji seem to provide a shinier finish. (I typically use Chosera 400, 800, and 3000, so this is based on research rather than personal experience.)

Aotoishi is a gateway stone to natural stones. It contains natural stone abrasives, and its properties change depending on pressure and the amount of slurry. I’ve wanted this for years but haven’t bought it yet. I know it would be a lot of fun, but I don't want to dive too deep down the rabbit hole

 

[James]

I didn't see the gesshin jinzo aoto mentioned here. It provides a lot of contrast

 

[kdizzog6]

Suehiro Cerax gives an awesome cloudy wrought contrast and a nice mirror on core steels. 1000 and 3000 perform much better than any of my chosera's when polishing.

 

[JPAU]

The Naniwa Goken(not Tsuyoshiken) include several series such as Arata, Pro, Muso, Kagayaki, Hayabusa, and Fuji. Arata is a miniaturized version of Chosera, with the base removed. Compared to Chosera, it is significantly more affordable.
The Pro and Muso produce a brighter kasumi than King. Kagayaki, Hayabusa, and Fuji seem to provide a shinier finish. (I typically use Chosera 400, 800, and 3000, so this is based on research rather than personal experience.)

Aotoishi is a gateway stone to natural stones. It contains natural stone abrasives, and its properties change depending on pressure and the amount of slurry. I’ve wanted this for years but haven’t bought it yet. I know it would be a lot of fun, but I don't want to dive too deep down the rabbit hole

This is very helpful! Thanks!

 

[JPAU]

I didn't see the gesshin jinzo aoto mentioned here. It provides a lot of contrast

I have selected a shortlist based on what is available to me in Australia and for which I will not pay exorbitant shipping

 

[Just a DK]

Did you cross out the pink brick 220 because soaking? I think there was a thread where milan actually uses it with less water (not fully soaked) for fast bevel work.

 

[JPAU]

Did you cross out the pink brick 220 because soaking? I think there was a thread where milan actually uses it with less water (not fully soaked) for fast bevel work.

I am referencing splash and go, but also haven’t found one of those available in Australia or with minimal shipping. Happy to be corrected.

 

[kujaku]

The pink brick is a good stone, but my only complaint is that sometimes large, hard clumps of abrasive come off the stone and can leave deep scratches on my knife. I’m using one from Imanishi.