POLL: How much is a Jiro Nakagawa gyuto worth to you?

[Barmoley]

I was joking. I had a Xerxes Primus II for a short time and that has a curved handle, especially towards the heel. The most comfortable knife I've held bar none.

I had one two, totally agree supremely comfortable, but if you take a close look you will see that the part of the handle that you contact in pinch grip points slightly up or horizontal when the edge is on the board. The rear of the handle curves down like you said, but that part doesn't really matter.

 

[Corradobrit1]

My concern about the Jiro handle, besides the curvature, is how thin it appears. Its the girth of the Xerxes that also contributes to its comfort.

 

[HRC_64]

When people are paying $800+ for Chelsea Miller's work I've lost all faith in the market and its perceptions of value.

This.

 

[milkbaby]

The Kramer is so tall and has belly that it might make sense for the handle to point a little downward.

 

[Elliot]

My concern about the Jiro handle, besides the curvature, is how thin it appears. Its the girth of the Xerxes that also contributes to its comfort.

FWIW, Tanaka Ironwood is rather thin for a Western and I think it’s quite comfortable.

 

[Corradobrit1]

FWIW, Tanaka Ironwood is rather thin for a Western and I think it’s quite comfortable.

Is it as heavy though?

 

[wind88]

I have a Jiro yo handle 240. It’s on the thinner side but very comfortable to hold. Despite being 300g, the balance is excellent right at the pinch point

 

[Elliot]

Is it as heavy though?

Fair point. Haven’t held a Jiro, but my 270 Ironwood isn’t heavy at all. Haven’t weighed it, but I’d guess 200-220g tops, even with that Ironwood.

 

[labor of love]

Fair point. Haven’t held a Jiro, but my 270 Ironwood isn’t heavy at all. Haven’t weighed it, but I’d guess 200-220g tops, even with that Ironwood.

no way! its gotta weigh more than that!

 

[Elliot]

no way! its gotta weigh more than that!

I stand corrected. You got me curious. It’s so nimble I can’t believe I have Kato’s that weigh the same but shorter.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I have a Jiro yo handle 240. It’s on the thinner side but very comfortable to hold. Despite being 300g, the balance is excellent right at the pinch point

Good to have some real world experiences. Judging solely from pics and supposition isn't necessarily telling the full story.

 

[Ivang]

The fact that he's made only 30 of these style knives for Hitohira is interesting.
Does anyone know what style knives, if any, Jiro was forging before he started making these for Hitohira?

I'd like to know that too.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I stand corrected. You got me curious. It’s so nimble I can’t believe I have Kato’s that weigh the same but shorter.

That looks chunkier than Jiro handle behind the pinch grip.

 

[labor of love]

my shigehiro 270mm is 264 grams and honestly I consider it to be somewhat nimble. probably the narrowness of the blade.

 

[Barmoley]

my shigehiro 270mm is 264 grams and honestly I consider it to be somewhat nimble. probably the narrowness of the blade.

Balance is very important too, when balanced right a knife feels light, but over time weight still takes a toll. On the other hand the weight can help too, so maybe it works out at the end.

 

[HRC_64]

The rear of the handle curves down like you said, but that part doesn't really matter.
View attachment 60513

Those curved heel segments are for typically using the tip (pointing down),
The curve allows a much more neutral wrist position, without heel off the end.

 

[Gregmega]

I keep reading ‘inflated’ and ‘hype’ knives from people who clearly don’t have one, nor seem interested in buying one. I’m gonna go ahead and call bullsh*t on those guys.

Let me tell you what a hype knife is: a Kato. Anyone here who has purchased a Kato for more than 600$ (what I paid for my last one) has purchased an inflated knife (ie Kato ku, *** lol). I would never buy another kato again thanks to recent ‘hype’ prices (which is sad, cause they’re pretty dope), simply because a Kato is not worth more than 600$ to me. I’d rather buy a 200$ Maz and beat the sh*t out of it. I won’t even tell you what I paid for my shig western, cause the torches would get lit I’m sure. The industry threshold has gone f’n bananas in the last few years, let’s guess that if this came out 5 years ago, it would be priced south of 400. And we’d still be in shock. Hell, 5 years ago you couldn’t give away a Kato ku. They were like 3-400. And they still cut like sh*t btw.

I believe that a yo Jiro is most likely worth every penny, and simply because I believe in supporting craftsmen in what they do. He’s charging hito whatever they decided on, so let’s assume he’s not being taken advantage of, nor is it our business. Either way, as a one man show, he’s working hard at producing his vision and that’s worth my money. I owe my whole career to people who trusted me & believed my work. I’m gonna do the same for him.

And for the record these knives are largely sold before they hit the websites, as basically every vendor has publicly started a list for preorder. They’re not available through the hito site, as dictated to me from hito via email.

 

[friz]

I keep reading ‘inflated’ and ‘hype’ knives from people who clearly don’t have one, nor seem interested in buying one. I’m gonna go ahead and call bullsh*t on those guys.

Let me tell you what a hype knife is: a Kato. Anyone here who has purchased a Kato for more than 600$ (what I paid for my last one) has purchased an inflated knife (ie Kato ku, *** lol). I would never buy another kato again thanks to recent ‘hype’ prices (which is sad, cause they’re pretty dope), simply because a Kato is not worth more than 600$ to me. I’d rather buy a 200$ Maz and beat the sh*t out of it. I won’t even tell you what I paid for my shig western, cause the torches would get lit I’m sure. The industry threshold has gone f’n bananas in the last few years, let’s guess that if this came out 5 years ago, it would be priced south of 400. And we’d still be in shock. Hell, 5 years ago you couldn’t give away a Kato ku. They were like 3-400. And they still cut like sh*t btw.

I believe that a yo Jiro is most likely worth every penny, and simply because I believe in supporting craftsmen in what they do. He’s charging hito whatever they decided on, so let’s assume he’s not being taken advantage of, nor is it our business. Either way, as a one man show, he’s working hard at producing his vision and that’s worth my money. I owe my whole career to people who trusted me & believed my work. I’m gonna do the same for him.

And for the record these knives are largely sold before they hit the websites, as basically every vendor has publicly started a list for preorder. They’re not available through the hito site, as dictated to me from hito via email.

Agree on Katos and Shigs in my opinion too. Well said.

 

[friz]

I keep reading ‘inflated’ and ‘hype’ knives from people who clearly don’t have one, nor seem interested in buying one. I’m gonna go ahead and call bullsh*t on those guys.

Let me tell you what a hype knife is: a Kato. Anyone here who has purchased a Kato for more than 600$ (what I paid for my last one) has purchased an inflated knife (ie Kato ku, *** lol). I would never buy another kato again thanks to recent ‘hype’ prices (which is sad, cause they’re pretty dope), simply because a Kato is not worth more than 600$ to me. I’d rather buy a 200$ Maz and beat the sh*t out of it. I won’t even tell you what I paid for my shig western, cause the torches would get lit I’m sure. The industry threshold has gone f’n bananas in the last few years, let’s guess that if this came out 5 years ago, it would be priced south of 400. And we’d still be in shock. Hell, 5 years ago you couldn’t give away a Kato ku. They were like 3-400. And they still cut like sh*t btw.

I believe that a yo Jiro is most likely worth every penny, and simply because I believe in supporting craftsmen in what they do. He’s charging hito whatever they decided on, so let’s assume he’s not being taken advantage of, nor is it our business. Either way, as a one man show, he’s working hard at producing his vision and that’s worth my money. I owe my whole career to people who trusted me & believed my work. I’m gonna do the same for him.

And for the record these knives are largely sold before they hit the websites, as basically every vendor has publicly started a list for preorder. They’re not available through the hito site, as dictated to me from hito via email.

Pardon my ignorance on this but you have to explain to me why Katos knives have gone up this high. Is there a reason? Shigs too

 

[Gregmega]

Pardon my ignorance on this but you have to explain to me why Katos knives have gone up this high. Is there a reason? Shigs too

Just speculation- but my guess is a number of factors.

For Kato: His production is extremely low, they’re difficult to acquire, this pushes up the secondary market, there’s always a rumor that he’s 10 minutes away from retiring, a few years ago a couple people realized that they could pump & dump them, so they took the market to the limit, and everyone followed, and then there’s the fact that they’re just badass knives. Badass knives that are rare just end up expensive I guess.

For Shig: Production appears to be a bit higher, so I don’t see the same thing happening, though not for not trying as the pump & dump crew wrestled those prices up as well. It’s mostly the collectors market stuff, like the yo shigs and super rare single bevels that command the wild prices. But I’ve seen more yo shigs on the market for sale lately than I remember thinking were even in existence a few years ago.

But I’d have to say to biggest reason for the seismic shift in the market is just the awareness and people taking advantage of the market. I’ve never gotten a shig or Kato from a site, never was fast enough. So the secondary market is where there prices are set these days.

 

[friz]

Just speculation- but my guess is a number of factors.

For Kato: His production is extremely low, they’re difficult to acquire, this pushes up the secondary market, there’s always a rumor that he’s 10 minutes away from retiring, a few years ago a couple people realized that they could pump & dump them, so they took the market to limit, and everyone followed, and then there’s the fact that they’re just badass knives. Badass knives that are rare just end up expensive I guess.

For Shig: I don’t see the same thing happening, though not for not trying as the pump & dump crew wrestled those prices up as well. It’s mostly the collectors market stuff, like the yo shigs and super rare single bevels that command the wild prices.

But I’d have to say to biggest reason for the seismic shift in the market is just the awareness and people taking advantage of the market. I’ve never gotten a shig or Kato from a site, never was fast enough. So the secondary market is where there prices are set these days.

Thank you.

 

[bahamaroot]

Lets not forget that certain group where just the fact that it's priced very high for its market makes it desirable to them. That high price alone to them says things like "quality", "unique" and "collectable" etc. If the exact product was priced at $300 they would have little interest in it. It would be just another knife.

 

[Cyrilix]

Lets not forget that certain group where just the fact that it's priced very high for its market makes it desirable to them. That high price alone to them says things like "quality", "unique" and "collectable" etc. If the exact product was priced at $300 they would have little interest in it. It would be just another knife.

There is definitely some validation going on. "If other people are buying at these prices, so should I."

On the other hand, someone brought up Mazaki. My readings have told me that Mazaki is very inconsistent in the work produced. That's always a red flag for me. Either there are QC issues / not enough time spent refining the knife, or the maker doesn't really know what they want to make. Neither is a good indicator for
me, and there is plenty of Mazaki hype. It's fine if the maker wants to try out different stuff, but you have to distinguish those with a new product line. Otherwise, it just looks sloppy.

 

[bahamaroot]

There is definitely some validation going on. "If other people are buying at these prices, so should I."

On the other hand, someone brought up Mazaki. My readings have told me that Mazaki is very inconsistent in the work produced. That's always a red flag for me. Either there are QC issues / not enough time spent refining the knife, or the maker doesn't really know what they want to make. Neither is a good indicator for
me, and there is plenty of Mazaki hype. It's fine if the maker wants to try out different stuff, but you have to distinguish those with a new product line. Otherwise, it just looks sloppy.

Don't see the relevant comparison. Mazaki didn't debuted at $800 a pop and wasn't known as inconsistent until his product was on the market for awhile and variances were seen with each new lot. And even with the inconsistencies his knives still performed well. Jiro hasn't build a rep for consistency yet though it's not likely he will be another Mazaki.

 

[Elliot]

I keep reading ‘inflated’ and ‘hype’ knives from people who clearly don’t have one, nor seem interested in buying one. I’m gonna go ahead and call bullsh*t on those guys.

Let me tell you what a hype knife is: a Kato. Anyone here who has purchased a Kato for more than 600$ (what I paid for my last one) has purchased an inflated knife (ie Kato ku, *** lol). I would never buy another kato again thanks to recent ‘hype’ prices (which is sad, cause they’re pretty dope), simply because a Kato is not worth more than 600$ to me. I’d rather buy a 200$ Maz and beat the sh*t out of it. I won’t even tell you what I paid for my shig western, cause the torches would get lit I’m sure. The industry threshold has gone f’n bananas in the last few years, let’s guess that if this came out 5 years ago, it would be priced south of 400. And we’d still be in shock. Hell, 5 years ago you couldn’t give away a Kato ku. They were like 3-400. And they still cut like sh*t btw.

I believe that a yo Jiro is most likely worth every penny, and simply because I believe in supporting craftsmen in what they do. He’s charging hito whatever they decided on, so let’s assume he’s not being taken advantage of, nor is it our business. Either way, as a one man show, he’s working hard at producing his vision and that’s worth my money. I owe my whole career to people who trusted me & believed my work. I’m gonna do the same for him.

And for the record these knives are largely sold before they hit the websites, as basically every vendor has publicly started a list for preorder. They’re not available through the hito site, as dictated to me from hito via email.

This is why I love you. Paid way too much (opinion, of course) for the vast majority of my Kato’s and Shigs and have even sold a couple (at small losses because I sleep better at night). Don’t expect to be buying any more of either in all likelihood. Few exceptions, I’m sure, but nowhere near “worth it” to me.

Jiro... I’m on a list.

 

[Matus]

I am genuinely curios why Jiro a $850 would be considered priced 'normal' and Kato not. The first maker ist more than a generation younger and is yet to prove himself (at least within the community around here - a place that most of us as a source of information to pre-judge future purchases).

I could well understand that one would consider BOTH to be overpriced (whatever measure once would use to get to that judgement) though.

 

[friz]

I am genuinely telling you Shigefusa and Kato knives have pushed the knives market prices up that high, that paying 1000USD for a knife isn't that horrendous anymore. So when you tell me Jiro knives are at 850USD I tell you it is normal. The blame is on us who first accepted price increase and got greedy.

 

[bahamaroot]

I am genuinely telling you Shigefusa and Kato knives have pushed the knives market prices up that high, that paying 1000USD for a knife isn't that horrendous anymore. So when you tell me Jiro knives are at 850USD I tell you it is normal. The blame is on us who first accepted price increase and got greedy.

Entirely to simplistic. I think the shear explosion in the number of knife enthusiasts over the past decade had a whole lot more to do with it. Supply and demand, people will pay big bucks to not have to stand in line. Just look at all the knives at every vendor that are OOS more often than in stock.

 

[friz]

Entirely to simplistic. I think the shear explosion in the number of knife enthusiasts over the past decade had a whole lot more to do with it. Supply and demand...

Okay, so you are okay in paying big money for a knife, if you like it? you are not bothered that 2 years ago the same knife was priced at 30%/40% lower?

 

[bahamaroot]

2 years ago you could rarely find a Kato or Shig, they are easier to find now. And they weren't 30-40% cheaper 2 years ago, maybe 4-5 years ago. And it doesn't matter what I'm okay with paying, the market is ok with it and that's the reality.