Pour over coffee grinders?

[LostHighway]

My venerable Baratza Viruoso grinder (with upgraded burrs) jammed this morning. Normally this isn't a huge problem but this time he hopper won't turn so I can't remove it and no amount to tapping and coaxing has helped. I will put in an advice request to Baratza, they're very good about support, but I fear that addressing this is going to mean destroying some plastic parts (replacements available through Baratza).
The question at hand is should I buy a new grinder and if so which one? Before anyone suggests small capacity hand grinders I should note that the first thing in the morning drill, if I'm having coffee as opposed to tea, is to brew a liter of coffee for the household. I need to be able to grind 55 - 65 g relatively quickly while half awake.
An unusually fast and large capacity hand grinder might be an option but I can't think of one off hand. I'm also not willing to spend a small fortune on a grinder so I'm mostly shopping in the $250 - $400 US realm. The grinder must have enough adjustment range to handle anything from French Press to V60, I don't care about espresso or Turkish, with a decent degree of precision. The Fellow Ode and the Baratza Virtuoso + immediately come to mind but I'm open to other suggestions. Product support definitely matters which excludes most PRC made grinders. Advice comrades?

 

[MarcelNL]

Grinders - Home-Barista.com is probably your best source for info

 

[MarcelNL]

Or watch a couple of James Hoffmann video reviews on YT, I find his reviews are pretty good.

 

[hmh]

Eureka mignon for drip is probably good. The bottom ones of the Mignon line are pretty much exactly the same as the higher end ones apart from the screen and noise isolation (i.e. burrs and engine are the same across the line up to the specialita).

I actually bought the Mignon crono on sale and had their espresso burrs installed. Ended up with pretty much the equivalent of the Silenzio at 1/3 of the price.

 

[EShin]

In terms of cost performance, the brand Timemore offers exceptional grinders and I've been very happy with my hand grinder. I saw that they now offer an electronic mill, the Timemore Grinder Go, which fits your description. Haven't tested it myself but the reviews seem to be quite positive, so it might be worth checking out if it's available there.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

I suck. I get my stuff ground at the coffee store. I dont have time to fuss with it. but I do have time to do a pour-over every morning. I'll live.

my friend gives me crap about it, but he does this hand grinder thing. I love going to his house and I will ask for a second cup. hahah.

 

[Chips]

The Fellow Ode is pretty awesome, small footprint, fast, and much quieter than the Baratza's I've owned. For your price range, it's a no brainer IMO.

 

[Moooza]

The Commandante C40 is the standard for a hand grinder. It means you can share grind settings easily. But, it is a hand grinder so can be a bit annoying.

 

[MarcelNL]

@LostHighway ; what did you ultimately do/get?

 

[Nemo]

I've been happy with the Eureka Mingon Specialita (I use it for espresso, though). It is similar to Silenzia except it has slightly larger burrs (55 vs 50 mm) and a timer screen readout in seconds, rather than just a time adjustment dial (without a scale). Knowing what I know now, I think that the Silenzia would have been fine.

It's pretty quiet, which is handy first thing in the morning.

 

[LostHighway]

@LostHighway ; what did you ultimately do/get?

I'm still attempting to repair the Baratza Virtuoso without damaging anything, but I've been drinking mostly cold coffee during the summer hot weather so the repair, if possible, isn't at the top of my priorities.
If I buy a new grinder the Fellow Ode is probably at the top of my list because it is quiet, small footprint, and an American company. I don't know if the grinder is actually made in America but the product support is apparently good. The downsides appear to be some production inconsistencies, an evolving burr set, and a not terribly robust motor (relevant primarily to large volumes or very fine grinds like espresso or Turkish).
Baratza is another US based company although the grinders are not made in the USA. Their product support is very good but the grinders aren't particularly quiet. Larger footprint than the Ode.
The Eureka Mignon seems like more of a moderately priced espresso grinder. Reports suggest that most Mignon models won't grind coarse enough for some non-espresso applications (French Press, cold brew, maybe vacuum/siphon). The Mignon Filtro and Brew Pro seem like the Eureka models I'd be most interested in although the Brew Pro is really more than I'd prefer to spend. There is a Mignon Filtro Silent but no US retailer seems to stock it so far. Working through an importer as opposed to a US based company also has its pitfalls.

 

[mengwong]

I got a Mazzer Super Jolly from a cafe going out of business. It towers over everything else in my kitchen.

 

[coxhaus]

I bought a Baratza encore off this site used and it is amazing. I had no idea what a difference a grinder makes in the taste of coffee. We are now careful where we drink coffee out. It made such a difference in our coffee. A lot of places now taste off drinking their coffee. I mostly drink espresso out looking for the best.

I adjusted my coffee grinder to 19 and I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water. If I try to set the grinder at a lower number, it tends to get muddy. I use a lot of French dark roast coffee beans.

 

[Nemo]

I adjusted my coffee grinder to 19 and I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water. If I try to set the grinder at a lower number, it tends to get muddy. I use a lot of French dark roast coffee beans.

Are you using an espresso machine, a stovetop or some kind of drip filter?

 

[LostHighway]

deleted

 

[MarcelNL]

I use 17grams coffee and 270 grams of water.

@Nemo that precludes an espresso machine. 17g for 270 ml correlates roughly with 55g per liter for pour over, my guess is pour over.

 

[coxhaus]

Pour over. No espresso grinder. I have an old electric Italian espresso machine that was my mom's from way back. It does not compare to these high dollar machines talked about here. Here is my coffee station. Coffee cups lay down where wine bottles go.

 

[timebard]

Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.

Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?

 

[Lars]

Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.

Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?

I'm not sure about the Encore. I'm no fan of the small conical burrs for pourover. But the Forte BG with flat steel burrs would most definitely make a big improvement in the cup.

 

[LostHighway]

Shamelessly tagging on to this thread - anyone here have opinions on how substantial a difference grinder quality makes for Aeropress brewing? I use a Capresso Infinity burr grinder currently, it seems to work... fine? The build quality feels a bit lacking but for $90 I think it's okay. Mostly drink medium roasts on the nutty/chocolate-y/caramel-y side with a little milk. Use the Aeropress about 99% of the time since I'm the only coffee drinker in the house. I'm no connoisseur but I can make a cup I like better than most of my local coffee shops pretty consistently. No interest in getting into espresso.

Basically - would stepping up to a Baratza Encore, or one of the higher end ones mentioned here, make a strongly noticable difference in the end result for how I brew?

I suspect you'd notice the difference but you're asking a question that really only you can answer.
I have a couple friends that own the Capresso. Both of them purchased it on my recommendation that it was the absolute minimum adequate grinder for pour over and I stand by that rating. Somewhat surprisingly I don't know anyone that owns the Baratza Encore and I've never used it. A properly adjusted Baratza Virtuoso or Virtuoso + should have much better grounds distribution than the Capresso. That is almost certainly true of the Eureka Mignon Filtro and the Fello Ode as well but I can't confirm that from personal experience.
The Ode with the 1.0 or 1.1 burrs may not grind fine enough for you depending on your Aeropress process. Supposedly there are 2.0 burrs coming this fall (???) which should address this or you can spend another ~$185 USD to buy the SSP burr set which will address it

Edit: If you aren't concerned with coarser grinds like French Press or cold brew I suspect the regular Mignon as opposed the Filtro might be the way to go but you'd have to ask one of their retailers.

 

[coxhaus]

I also have to say I don't use tap water for coffee as it does not taste as good. You may have noticed my water bottle in my picture above. I tried a Reverse Osmosis system under my sink, and I did not think it tasted as good as bottled water. The reverse Osmosis system would only knock down the water a certain percentage. We have highly alkaline water where I live.

 

[MarcelNL]

The aeropress IMO is more in the espresso territory in it's need for a grinder, something like a Super Jolly works great with its 64mm flat burrs (used SJ's can be found at around 100 bucks, get new burrs, clean it and give it a new lease of life, some are heavy used, some hardly, built like a tank).

Water is a topic in itself, SCA has guidelines and there is a subforum on HB on water where the mod is quite an expert.

 

[daddy yo yo]

About a year ago my gf and myself were considering getting a grinder. We carefully chose the Baratza Sette. I think it is good for both coarser and finer grains and has a couple of nice features which we liked. It won’t make you bankrupt, too. In the end, we didn’t buy one as I have a high-end equipment in my apt, and my gf and I chose to do pour-over coffee at her place with ground coffee as we found one available in small 250g quantities. If we had bought one, Baratza Sette it would have been!

 

[Luftmensch]

The question at hand is should I buy a new grinder and if so which one?

If you do not feel like your Baratza Viruoso lacked any features or capacity... Maybe not? It is a pretty good choice for the price range you are looking at. By and large alternate choices are likely to be a move sideways?? There could be some small features that change the balance for you. Or not! For example, I thought I would find timed grinding useful.... but I found single dosing better suited for my routine. So that feature ended up being an unnecessary cost and to some degree frustrating!

Subjectively decide how much you would be willing to spend on repairing your current grinder? See if that aligns with your sense of value... I bet you are a pretty handy guy... but I'll admit to being lazy and solving some problems with replacement rather than repair. Our free personal time has a value as well!

I have to say though... the Fellow Ode is a really sleek looking grinder. Apparently it's autostop feature is temperamental. That could get annoying... though... perhaps you can turn it off? For pour over, I have given this grinder serious thought....

 

[timebard]

The aeropress IMO is more in the espresso territory in it's need for a grinder, something like a Super Jolly works great with its 64mm flat burrs (used SJ's can be found at around 100 bucks, get new burrs, clean it and give it a new lease of life, some are heavy used, some hardly, built like a tank).

Water is a topic in itself, SCA has guidelines and there is a subforum on HB on water where the mod is quite an expert.

Interesting that y'all are suggesting/assuming very fine espresso-like grind size for Aeropress brewing. I typically use about the 5th-6th finest settings out of 16 on my Capresso, depending on the beans, in line with the default "medium fine" recommendation. I haven't experimented much with the very fine end of the spectrum but will give it a try.

I like the used SJ idea but the lowest I see on the bay is about $425 shipped. Any recs on where to find one cheap?

 

[MarcelNL]

I'm in the Netherlands, so nothing I recommend will work for you ;-) (shipping that lump of cast aluminum i expensive)
425 is a lot, I see them pop up for around 100-150 regularly but not daily, probably best to set an alert and have patience. I picked up one for 75, and a Fiorenzato 64mm for 125, both gifts for friends. Paid 350 for my Major.
Look through dirt and grime, just check wonky bearings when picking them up, you wil have to put in new burrs and invest lots of elbow grease, perhaps a motor capacitor but generally they last loooooong.

 

[LostHighway]

If you do not feel like your Baratza Viruoso lacked any features or capacity... Maybe not? It is a pretty good choice for the price range you are looking at. By and large alternate choices are likely to be a move sideways?? There could be some small features that change the balance for you. Or not! For example, I thought I would find timed grinding useful.... but I found single dosing better suited for my routine. So that feature ended up being an unnecessary cost and to some degree frustrating!

Subjectively decide how much you would be willing to spend on repairing your current grinder? See if that aligns with your sense of value... I bet you are a pretty handy guy... but I'll admit to being lazy and solving some problems with replacement rather than repair. Our free personal time has a value as well!

I have to say though... the Fellow Ode is a really sleek looking grinder. Apparently it's autostop feature is temperamental. That could get annoying... though... perhaps you can turn it off? For pour over, I have given this grinder serious thought....

I'd probably be willing to spend up to $100 to get the Baratza back to full functionality assuming that didn't also include hours of frustration which remains to be seen. The Baraztas largest flaws are that it is noisy and not extremely solidly constructed. I'd love to see both the Eureka and the Ode at least partially broken down but based on burr replacement level views they both look more solidly constructed than the Virtuoso.
I'm more materials and process focused than the vast majority of people when it comes to coffee. I've experimented with different water sources (tap, filtered, bottled), different grinds, measure temperature at the kettle (and in the past in the slurry, doesn't matter), don't reboil water or let it sit at 212F, and keep relatively good track of my ratios (weigh initially but then often go by volume once I've established the proper volume for a specific bean). All that said I mostly brew a liter carafe in the AM and only brew single cups now and again so I'm not a full on coffee geek. I do, however, have the apparatus for a bunch of different brewing methods.
I'm attracted to the design of the Ode and like the small footprint and relatively quiet grind. Their status as a recent start up seems to mean that they weren't too tied to traditional design decisions but it also means that they don't have as strong a manufacturing process background as Baratza or Eureka and in some ways the Ode remains a bit of a beta product.

 

[coxhaus]

Anybody tried the Gorilla burr replacements for the Ode? What did you think? That looks nice to me but we are up around $500. The other option would be the SSP burr replacements.

My Baratza Encore just keeps working. No issues no problems. We use it every day.

 

[Luftmensch]

I'd probably be willing to spend up to $100 to get the Baratza back to full functionality assuming that didn't also include hours of frustration which remains to be seen.

I guess at this point the Baratza is pretty much dead. You could see how much frustration might be involved by disassembling it before ordering parts. If the disassembly is easy and you don't break anything... you may be able to repair it within budget.

The Baraztas largest flaws are that it is noisy and not extremely solidly constructed. I'd love to see both the Eureka and the Ode at least partially broken down but based on burr replacement level views they both look more solidly constructed than the Virtuoso.

I am just chin-waggin' here... but I think the last 10 years, in the coffee world, has seen increased interest in pushing the boundaries of filter coffee. It seems to me that prior to this wave, high-end grinders were designed for espresso. The espresso grinders from europe are solid chunks of metal - particularly if you get into cafe grade tools. Much of the design improvements here have been evolutionary (not revolutionary).

More recently, the community has realised that if you are only interested in filter coffee, you can potentially make better (less fines) and cheaper grinders. A part of this evolution is that these new grinders are smaller and appear less tank-like. All things being equal, I expect these lighter duty grinders to be less durable (simply because they are not over kill!).

I'm attracted to the design of the Ode and like the small footprint and relatively quiet grind. Their status as a recent start up seems to mean that they weren't too tied to traditional design decisions but it also means that they don't have as strong a manufacturing process background as Baratza or Eureka and in some ways the Ode remains a bit of a beta product.

At the end of the day, these are stupidly simple electro-mechanical devices. If they have no 'smarts' in them, they are just a motor with a switch!! They ought to be easy to repair. I would be much more keen on the Fellow Ode if it was just an on/off device... it would be very easy to repair. That would increase my confidence in the product. Still; it is on my list.....


If you want bullet-proof-almost-last-forever... it is hard to go past @Moooza's recommendation:

The Commandante C40

... but I think I would prefer electric!!



Addendum: I have neglected to recommend the chinese generic grinders... eg. the ghost burr grinders and the DF64... the community is pretty interested in these because they offer good value out of the box. Their build quality leaves much to desired... but I think they appeal to those who like to mod and tinker...

 

[coxhaus]

I would think before you go crazy on grinders you would need to condition your water otherwise you are wasting your money. More than likely you need to take out minerals and maybe adjust the PH of the water. If you are one of the lucky few to where you need to add minerals so be it.