power amp on a budget?

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I know I’ve already mentioned this twice but you’re right back where you started buying a $800.00 amp that doesn’t hold a candle to a $350.00us Crown xls1500. I’ve heard them side by side and the Crown will run circles around that Behringer amp. And it doesn’t have a noisy fan in it. In fact it doesn’t have a fan at all. A lot of guys were running these Crown amps in audiophile systems and liked them. I purchased a couple but ended up using them in my 5.1 surround sound system because I didn’t like them near as much as my class a and ab amps in my good two channel system.
 
I know I’ve already mentioned this twice but you’re right back where you started buying a $800.00 amp that doesn’t hold a candle to a $350.00us Crown xls1500. I’ve heard them side by side and the Crown will run circles around that Behringer amp. And it doesn’t have a noisy fan in it. In fact it doesn’t have a fan at all. A lot of guys were running these Crown amps in audiophile systems and liked them. I purchased a couple but ended up using them in my 5.1 surround sound system because I didn’t like them near as much as my class a and ab amps in my good two channel system.

the behringer amp is just a qsc 1450 amp. that they ripped off, they also ripped off the ep2500 construction. and its the 2450a here RMX 1450a it had dual feed rail from the psu. at a certain power it switches rails. and you can tune the crossover distortion to very very low thd% but i was cheap when i bought my ep1500 the 250 was like 100€ more. but its almost twice the power.
almost nothing runs circles around these amps.
 
crown xls 1500 Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): < 0.5%. the behringer/qsc is like 100 times better.

thats not good.

its also a class D, so the power figures don't reallt impress me at all. if i wanted a class D i would buy a lab gruppen.
 
also if one takes the time to look at the data of the qsc and the crown amps you will see how unserious crown is with their specs/measurements. while qsc provides pretty much everything you need to know crown simply pull some numbers out of their ass. thats not serious if you ask me. i mean i can pay, but i cant pay for "mystery stuff". its just not gonna happen. owners manual Crown XLS 1500
 
The way I see you going at this moment, you don't appear to have a clear picture of what it is that you want/need. I'm not referring to audio components,,,, I'm referring to the tasks you wish to accomplish. Small monitors are probably fine for listening to music,,,,, using your synth as a dedicated instrument however, might present a very different set of issues.

The VERY FIRST thing I'd do if I were in your shoes, is get myself to a pro-audio store, and have a talk with a "competent" sales-person/dealer. Explain precisely what it is you wish to accomplish. Bring your synth with you. Listen to as many systems as you feel necessary,,, even if you have no intention to buy at that moment. Just assess the impact of those various choices/options vs how well the various systems meet those specific needs. Ask if you can try this gear at home for a day or two. You might also be able to rent that gear by the day/week. etc.

Don't be too reliant on 'specs"; remember, a speaker manufacturer may be using a little creative marketing to achieve those "great looking paper-specs",,,, that's what "sells" gear. Just trust your ears, and consider warranty and after-sale parts and service availability.... and their return policy. Make a check-list before going to the store,,,, listing everything you want to consider when auditioning that gear.This is something you're going to have-to do.(listening in person) At the end of the day, even if you decide you don't need "new gear", and you decide to repair what you do have,,,, you'll at least know what the possibilities were, and there's "no-charge" for that.
 
bobby i know what i "need" and thats 2x6,5 inch in the mids, 50-70 liters. i have had that and its sounds wonderful. i have those speakers as decoration now. i simply dont have the space for them. i live ultra compact. my whole house is 25m2. i cant have 60 liter monitors longer. i can have 15 liter ones at most. or else i have to move my fridge. yeah it was a joke but space is at a premium. if i can achieve the spl i want at only 15-20l per box its nice. but 50-60l is wont work, there is simply no space.

i'd love to recommision my old monitors at 60l each, they had real physical punch up to 1k. but its simply not possible.
 
mother of ****ing god!! this tune/vid is good. tbis is a typical song that i woul pretty much max out the system at.

 
A lot depends on the rigidity of the mains, (cabinet resonance).

They aren't too bad. Its all the other stuff in the room around them!

I personally use servo controlled woofers. My speakers have two 12” servo subs each. I can’t recommend them enough if you like clean bass. No more muddy bass since they start and stop instantly.

Same as my subs! Very 'clean'. Not flabby at all...

I also have a lot of room treatments so that the bass doesn’t bounce all over the room.

Nice one. It cant be ignored if you are striving for a really clean experience... Our space is too multipurpose to optimise it for our sound system... 😞 Maybe one day!
 
crown xls 1500 Total Harmonic Distortion (THD): < 0.5%. the behringer/qsc is like 100 times better.

thats not good.

its also a class D, so the power figures don't reallt impress me at all. if i wanted a class D i would buy a lab gruppen.
Uli owns Lab Gruppen now (Uli Behringer) He also bought Midas (consoles), Klark-Teknik, Lake, Tannoy, and TurboSound.
 
The way I see you going at this moment, you don't appear to have a clear picture of what it is that you want/need. I'm not referring to audio components,,,, I'm referring to the tasks you wish to accomplish. Small monitors are probably fine for listening to music,,,,, using your synth as a dedicated instrument however, might present a very different set of issues.

The VERY FIRST thing I'd do if I were in your shoes, is get myself to a pro-audio store, and have a talk with a "competent" sales-person/dealer. Explain precisely what it is you wish to accomplish. Bring your synth with you. Listen to as many systems as you feel necessary,,, even if you have no intention to buy at that moment. Just assess the impact of those various choices/options vs how well the various systems meet those specific needs. Ask if you can try this gear at home for a day or two. You might also be able to rent that gear by the day/week. etc.

Don't be too reliant on 'specs"; remember, a speaker manufacturer may be using a little creative marketing to achieve those "great looking paper-specs",,,, that's what "sells" gear. Just trust your ears, and consider warranty and after-sale parts and service availability.... and their return policy. Make a check-list before going to the store,,,, listing everything you want to consider when auditioning that gear.This is something you're going to have-to do.(listening in person) At the end of the day, even if you decide you don't need "new gear", and you decide to repair what you do have,,,, you'll at least know what the possibilities were, and there's "no-charge" for that.
genelecs sound pretty damn good at the guitarcenter (poor conditions) with the treble turned down a bit
 
genelecs sound pretty damn good at the guitarcenter (poor conditions) with the treble turned down a bit
Yep, Genelec has many models too. Focal is yet another brand in that price-range. They both have their quirks though. The listening/monitoring sweetspot is VERY TIGHT on some models. I had to move my head vertically to get the sweetspot, which is very unusual. Even a tiny up/down movement made a big difference. If I remember correctly, the Focals were using an inverted-dome tweeter on some models,,, and I believe the Genelecs were using a wave-guide. My clear favourites though, were the Klein & Hummel 0 300 (now called Neumann). I've got a pair of Spendor SA3's which I've had since the early 80's. That's a large control-room monitor, originally custom-designed by Spencer Hughes, an engineer formerly with the BBC, for radio-station WDR Cologne, in Germany.

I've also got a pair of Adam A-7's which also gets pretty good reviews, and not very expensive. I haven't even tried those yet. I'm getting lazy, or suffereing from speaker-overload. (33 in all, plus 3 headphones)

ADAM A7X (Price is in Canadian dollars)
 
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haha, yeah I know of this, there is a guy in the UK doing the same, built his house around the design of his horns and his horns enter the living room in the corners, Japanes bloke doing similar but in a hill side....(don't want to wind up the horn if you don't have to.

how about this, it's a near field solution that goes LOW and does not need a gazillion over-inflated Watts to power. Life is about making choices you know ;-)

ANd BTW; THD numbers alone are pretty pointless as it's easy to get THD way down at the cost of increasing TIM (Transient InterModulation). In the end the amp looks good on paper but sounds like S%&t
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haha, yeah I know of this, there is a guy in the UK doing the same, built his house around the design of his horns and his horns enter the living room in the corners, Japanes bloke doing similar but in a hill side....(don't want to wind up the horn if you don't have to.

how about this, it's a near field solution that goes LOW and does not need a gazillion over-inflated Watts to power. Life is about making choices you know ;-)

ANd BTW; THD numbers alone are pretty pointless as it's easy to get THD way down at the cost of increasing TIM (Transient InterModulation). In the end the amp looks good on paper but sounds like S%&tView attachment 90484

Boy oh boy, you've gotta wonder where these guys' heads were at. Great "cool looking factor",,, but I can't even turn up a single cabinet of my 18" Yorkville LS801P's beyond level 2 without the dishes in my kitchen bouncing around in the cupboards, and my L-shaped living-room measures 36' x 32'.

Even when I step outside the house and listen by standing in my driveway to see if it's too loud for the neighbours, it sounds like I'm listening to a "Live" band from a hotel parking lot. Most of the time now, I tend to use my 15" Yorkville LS700P's because the 801P is just tooo muchhhh.

FWIW, we were having "jams" here on a fairly regular basis; up to 12 musicians/vocalists at a time. I provide the "venue" and the front and back-line equipment. I tend to prefer the acoustic jams and we mic the vocals. When we're "rockin' though, the electric gear comes out. (Keyboards, fully-mic'ed acoustic Drum-kit, Latin Percussion, Guitars, Bass, and sometimes horns. We do the "Full Monty, complete with lights, lasers, etc. People driving by often stop their cars and watch us through the living-room windows, to see " what's happenin' ":dancingchicken::upsidedownspin::party::dancingcow:

One thing I'm very proud of;,,,, as loud as we can be,,, we virtually never have feedback.
 
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those 'guys' were the engineers of KLangilm, a Siemens-Halske operation back in the day when cinema got audio. These (and many more systems by them and Western Electric) are now highly sought after bits of kit. In the 20-ies and 30-ies they had few measurements, but folks knew how things should sound, and they did not give up until they got very very close!
Powered by a couple of low power tube amps, speakers in the wall behind the screen and you;re ready to go. Best audio reproduction I ever heard was made based on this sort of equipment, pls don;t make the misstake to compare PA with reproducing sound at home, while there are similarities there are some vast differences too!
 
Edit; It seems I have become irrelevant.
 
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those 'guys' were the engineers of KLangilm, a Siemens-Halske operation back in the day when cinema got audio. These (and many more systems by them and Western Electric) are now highly sought after bits of kit. In the 20-ies and 30-ies they had few measurements, but folks knew how things should sound, and they did not give up until they got very very close!
Powered by a couple of low power tube amps, speakers in the wall behind the screen and you;re ready to go. Best audio reproduction I ever heard was made based on this sort of equipment, pls don;t make the misstake to compare PA with reproducing sound at home, while there are similarities there are some vast differences too!

Oh, I agree 100% Marcel,,, the point I was making, but didn't specifically mention was, why "dual" monster subs? Completely pointless and unneccesary other than the "cool-looking factor".

By the way, do you remember the Altec-Lansing A7 "Voice-of-the-Theater"? How about the ElectroVoice Patrician? If I remember correctly, the A7's ran a 25w amp. The Patrician had a version with 30" subwoofer, and also ran on very little juice.
 
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(Edit... some of those notes are poo inducing... 35Hz...)
Oh, I agree 100% Marcel,,, the point I was making, but didn't specifically mention was, why "dual" monster subs? Completely pointless and unneccesary other than the "cool-looking factor".


AHA, well, these are not subs, this is full range.
Think full range horns with a super tweeter, both capable of fierce dynamics with very little coloration!
The surface area of the horn mouth sets the lowest frequency, when you don't fall into the trap of time misalignment due to bends and twists, vibrations etc its wide band up to the limit of the driver in use, usually around 5-7k
 
I'm surprised your neighbors did not provide you with any :waiting:

They've all moved away!!!!!:p (just kidding.)

The lots where I am are fairly large, and my closest neighbour is mostly away at his lake cottage in summer time.(when windows might be open). We also do more acoustic jams than we do loud club-level electric-jams.
 
Uli owns Lab Gruppen now (Uli Behringer) He also bought Midas (consoles), Klark-Teknik, Lake, Tannoy, and TurboSound.

just as volkswagen owns porsche, and fiat ferrari, :( how the F could we all let this happen?? the horror
 
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