Prices of hobbyist knives 0_o

[Ruso]

Do I miss something or what is going on with the hobbyist knives prices? When you can buy a knife from a well established maker(s) for cheaper than a knife from a person who makes the knives as a “hobby”.
Obviously, one can ask for any price, but maaan this looks fed up.

 

[M1k3]

What exactly are you comparing? Sakai style production versus made to order? Also have to compare the fit and finish. More abrasion resistant steels take more time to grind out AND make look nice. Stock removal versus making your own billet/stock. And so on...

 

[Ruso]

I am comparing western makers to western makers. It would not be fair to compare western hobbyist to Japanese professionals. The latter are much better value for money and probably outperform most western hobbyist.

 

[esoo]

Scales of economy and hardware. Making one blade is more expensive per blade than making multiples.

this is pretty much true of any hobby versus makers.

 

[LostHighway]

What represents a fair price or good value is up to the perceptions of the customer(s). It should be noted that several of the KKF "hobbyists" are well respected full time makers, it is simply down to how they have chosen to post available knives. Other hobbyists are making knives on the side. If you're pricing your tenth or twentieth knife at the level of "name" makers and can get it I have no problem with that but I'm not likely to be among the buyers.

 

[McMan]

Maybe two ways of looking at it?
(1) I see what you mean... some just starting out on the road ask about as much as some who've been on the road for a while. But there's a big gap in quality between the two.
(2) Some people just don't make many knives. But this doesn't mean they're not good at making knives, it just means they can't value efficiency/workflow/etc. the same ways as a full-time maker.

I've got a few knives from "hobbyists" that are badass. I have no doubt that the amount of time they spent in the knife far, far surpasses what they charged. They spent the time to get it right.

Long story short, I don't think there's always a clear correlation in terms of quality between someone doing something for a living vs. hobby. But I see what you mean--there are a lot of "low on the learning curve" options at the $3-400 price point. Hey, gotta pay off that belt grinder somehow

 

[Jville]

Can you reference a particular hobbyist or show a particular knife to do a comparison? I think it depends on the knife or particular hobbyist. I cant group all hobbyist together.

 

[ma_sha1]

The Japanese knives are great values, but pretty limited in their half dozen steels of choices, all of them are fragile & chippy when met with semi-frozen meat.

The US makers have some tough steels like 52100, you can’t get from JKnives. It’s my go to steel for cutting semi-frozen meat, I don’t mind paying a bit more because even my mighty Toyama can’t handle semi-frozen meat.

I know not all have a need to cut semi-frozen meat, but for me it’s a must for thin slicing stir-fry that I do daily.

 

[ModRQC]

I'm not even sure I understand the point being made. Who compares to who in what way here? Last time I checked "established" westerners sold knives easily above the 1K mark as a living. I think a good deal of hobbyists are proposing custom order well-made stuff for much less. First couple guys that bought a Kramer probably felt like it was a crazy move, even as he sold much cheaper?

 

[ian]

The Japanese knives are great values, but pretty limited in their half dozen steels of choices, all of them are fragile & chippy when met with semi-frozen meat.

The US makers have some tough steels like 52100, you can’t get from JKnives. It’s my go to steel for cutting semi-frozen meat, I dint mind paying a bit more because even my mighty Toyama can’t handle semi-frozen meat.

You are really into your semi frozen meat, my friend.

 

[ma_sha1]

You are really into your semi frozen meat, my friend.

Yes, because I am in the Stir-fry hobby,

hard meat > soft meat

 

[ModRQC]

You are really into your semi frozen meat, my friend.

They say it makes cuts easier and finer with bad knives. I wasn't under the impression @ma_sha1 had bad knives. There may be something to this.

 

[ecchef]

Just because someone is presented as a ‘hobbyist’ isn’t an automatic reason to think their work is inferior or less valuable than some established ‘makers’. Browse the selection from the ‘pros’ on some other Forums; absolute shite. And not cheap either.

 

[ian]

Yea, it’s hard to say for sure. I haven’t tried many knives by the “hobbyists” on here. The only one is a Kipp honyaki, but he’s totally established now. But yea, probably a hobbyist just starting out could spend 10x as long on a knife as a more established maker, so it’d be hard to compete pricewise. I have no idea though.

Perhaps it’d be best to have some reviews of the knives in question before we start blasting people for the prices they charge....

 

[ma_sha1]

They say it makes cuts easier and finer with bad knives. I wasn't under the impression @ma_sha1 had bad knives. There may be something to this.

I use my Shi.han 52100, a very fine knife. The reason for semi-frozen meat is because I take meat directly from freezer, microwave quick heat to semi-frozen & go directly to cutting. Full thawing will cook part of the meat, no good & the microwave thawing function takes too long, no time.

Also, you can slice semi-frozen meat a lot thinner than soft meat, like paper thin. Shaved meat, for example, can’t be done from soft meat.

Am I the only one cutting semi-frozen meat around here? Anyone one else?

 

[Colin]

I use my Shi.han 52100, a very fine knife. The reason for semi-frozen meat is because I take meat directly from the freezer, microwave quick heat to semi-frozen & go directly to cutting. Full thawing will cook part of the meat, no good & the microwave thawing function takes too long, no time.

At my work, we call it emergency thawing. We take meat that is frozen and defrost in the sink with running water over. Or the microwave, like you, but it depends on the amount of time we have until service and the portion of meat.

To answer the OPs question, I have some hobbyist knives that blow my other knives out of the water. Value is really relative when it comes to knives. Some people value aesthetics and are willing to pay a premium for it, others look for functionality. I think as a collective KKF values performance more, and some knife makers have really excelled in this forum because of it. We as a collective would most likely rather test the performance of a knife rather than judge the knife based on how long a person has been making knives or how famous they are.

 

[ian]

Am I the only one cutting semi-frozen meat around here? Anyone one else?

I do it occasionally, for all the reasons people usually give, but you seem to rate knives exclusively on their ability to do this.

 

[ModRQC]

I use my Shi.han 52100, a very fine knife. The reason for semi-frozen meat is because I take meat directly from freezer, microwave quick heat to semi-frozen & go directly to cutting. Full thawing will cook part of the meat, no good & the microwave thawing function takes too long, no time.

Also, you can slice semi-frozen meat a lot thinner than soft meat, like paper thin. Shaved meat, for example, can’t be done from soft meat.

Am I the only one cutting semi-frozen meat around here? Anyone one else?

"They say it makes cut easier and finer" applies of course even more to good knives. I wasn't trying to insult but saying what I think: I know you have good knives, better than mine surely, from hanging around here a bit. Just thinking there was something to it. You explained it at the same time.

 

[ian]

I’d like to see a semifrozen meat cutting test thread to compete with all the carrot cutting videos.

#offtopicschmofftopic

 

[ModRQC]

I'd like to see the "Show your newest" thread with a full video of every single knife, chopping herbs and mincing shallots, going though big hard carrots and watermelons and butternuts, dicing some onion as the standard presentation, slicing some raw and cooked proteins, and then some... Just me though.

 

[ma_sha1]

I’d like to see a semifrozen meat cutting test thread to compete with all the carrot cutting videos.

The chipping galore will lead to a shocking revelation of the industry’s darkest secrets: All Japanes knives are made by Shun

 

[Jville]

You are really into your semi frozen meat, my friend.

They should get a room.

 

[Jville]

I use my Shi.han 52100, a very fine knife. The reason for semi-frozen meat is because I take meat directly from freezer, microwave quick heat to semi-frozen & go directly to cutting. Full thawing will cook part of the meat, no good & the microwave thawing function takes too long, no time.

Also, you can slice semi-frozen meat a lot thinner than soft meat, like paper thin. Shaved meat, for example, can’t be done from soft meat.

Am I the only one cutting semi-frozen meat around here? Anyone one else?

While i will agree its easier to do shave meat with it semi frozen. You can easily cut some very thin meat with a japanese or good knive that is thin behind the edge or a slicing type knife, especially if its just for a family or personal stirfry. I started my cheesesteak truck using a knife. While i admit it was tedious and very laborious, i pulled it off and it got me started. Granted i would not return to that method, but i could definetly shave enough at my house for me to have a cheesesteak. At another job we used to partially freeze salmon for salmon tartare, which i found much easier. I also dont shave meat for stirfry, but i guess if that's your preference. I like it thin for stir fry, but have no issues cutting it with a knife. Its kind of like, when people have crappy or thick behind the edge knives and try to shave onions; its's very difficult. They will most likely opt for a mandoline or a slicer, but with a good sharp knife that is very thin behind the edge its not difficult.

 

[Kippington]

This thread went hilariously off topic... in record time!!!
Never change KKF!

 

[tchan001]

Ma_sha1 must be using an allegory tale of shaving semi-frozen meat to tell the hobbyist makers to shave off some of their pricing. LOL

 

[Jville]

This thread went hilariously off topic... in record time!!!
Never change KKF!

Dang it, Ma_sha and his frozen meat baited me. Something snapped, I couldn't help it.

 

[Matus]

C’mon OP, let’s throw in some names and offend a few people

 

[ma_sha1]

Dang it, Ma_sha and his frozen meat baited me. Something snapped, I couldn't help it.

 

[ModRQC]

But what do our hobbyist makers here think about that exactly?

I see @HSC /// Knives liking the OP. Is it irony, or does he agree to a certain degree? Why?

What about you @Kippington since you're around?

 

[Tim Rowland]

I am not a "hobbyist maker" here on KKF
I am however someone who makes knives as a hobby/side business in my spare time outside of my main career (Chef)
I post examples of my projects here every once in a while.
So I will not speak directly to pricing as I think that would be out of line for me to do so at this moment.
What I will do is echo those who have stated that a single craftsman operation is much different time wise and financially than a factory or "village" where multiple people do multiple parts as batches.
Typically, not always but typically if only 1 person is making an item there is going to be much more attention to detail.
Also geographic area effects a craftsman's cost of materials.
I hope this helps make a bit more sense of it well without actually discussing pricing/price points.