Primer on wear resistant steels

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Danejah

Danejah

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I picked up a venev 400/800 during the holiday sale and so now I have the urge to possibly dip my toes into more wear resistant steels for something new to me (and hopefully exciting). Ive got a handful of blades now ranging from b1 to AU 80crv2 135cr3. Seems like cru wear or magnacut might be some of the more popular options in the wear resistant category. For those who have taken a similar path as me, what did you go with as your first knife/steel and how did it meet or not meet your expectations? If there is a thread on this topic (which quite possibly there could be) I'm missing please link it so not to waste anyones time.

As a home cook I find myself using an old forge craft type knife that never gets sharpened for a beater utility around the kitchen, cutting open plastic meat packages, cutting up avocado/removing seed, cutting sandwiches for my kids that sorta thing. Im thinking a utility type knife in one of these steels may be a welcome replacement/upgrade.
 
This is a detailed post https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/

I have a HAP40 (Rex45) knife which is almost stainless. Another good, very wear resistant steel steel.

Personally I don't value wear resistance very high, so I haven't really dived deep into the topic. I don't find sharpening VG10 or SG2 difficult, which tends to be the common complaint with wear resistant steels.
 
jakuda said:
This is a detailed post https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10...ness-edge-retention-and-corrosion-resistance/

I have a HAP40 (Rex45) knife which is almost stainless. Another good, very wear resistant steel steel.

Personally I don't value wear resistance very high, so I haven't really dived deep into the topic. I don't find sharpening VG10 or SG2 difficult, which tends to be the common complaint with wear resistant steels.
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Yea Hap40 also seems like a good choice. Can be found places like knife japan for a pretty reasonable price to try out.... I guess with my exploration of these types of steel is understanding how well and for how much longer give or take they can last in a home setting vers some of the others I have.
 
Danejah said:
Yea Hap40 also seems like a good choice. Can be found places like knife japan for a pretty reasonable price to try out.... I guess with my exploration of these types of steel is understanding how well and for how much longer give or take they can last in a home setting vers some of the others I have.
Click to expand...
Comparing my Hap40 gyuto to more common knife steels, it sharpens well on the usual suspects (Shapton, Chosera, Cerax) but sslloowwllyy. Your diamonds should perform quicker.

Upside is the edge is so durable that it lasts several times longer than a typical carbon. I can get this steel very sharp.

With setup and cleanup factored in, the knife had a higher (time in use/time getting sharpened) ratio than my other carbon or stainless knives.
 
aporigine said:
Comparing my Hap40 gyuto to more common knife steels, it sharpens well on the usual suspects (Shapton, Chosera, Cerax) but sslloowwllyy.

Upside is the edge is so durable that it lasts several times longer than a typical carbon. I can get this steel very sharp.

With setup and cleanup factored in, the knife had a higher (time in use/time getting sharpened) ratio than my other carbon or stainless knives.
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What gyuto do you have that's HAP40?
 
Danejah said:
What gyuto do you have that's HAP40?
Click to expand...
It’s a Kohetsu 210 from the house of many asterisks. Lasery little unit.

Downside is that this one was from a batch featuring a 90/10 edge. I generally mess up a slice or two before applying the correction factor.
 
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I own kitchen knives in 5 different PM steels. Hap40 is my favorite. Mine is a thin laser 170mm. It gets screaming sharp and holds a blistering sharp edge for a long while. I sharpen with a venev 800. It is frequently used for small tasks and sees a lot of use. More wear resistant steels I own like K390 don’t get as sharp and its a noticeable issue on tomatoes. So I think this hits the edge retention + sharpness + ease of sharpening + toughness of the steels I have tried the best but only if ground thin behind the edge.
 
Last edited:
Justinv said:
I own kitchen knives in 5 different PM steels. Hap40 is my favorite. Mine is a thin laser 170mm. It gets screaming sharp and holds a blistering sharp edge for a long while. I sharpen with a venev 800. It is frequently used for small tasks and sees a lot of use. More wear resistant steels I own like K390 don’t get as sharp and it’s a noticeable issue on tomatoes. So I think this hits the edge retention + sharpness + ease of sharpening + toughness of the steels I have tried the best but only if ground thin behind the edge.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback, sounds like hap40 is worth a try!
 
I also noted I had good results sharpening 10V with a Venev 800. I haven’t tried sharpening magnacut yet. Anyway my general experience is these thin behind the edge wear resistant steels with good heat treat sharpen up almost as easily as say blue 1 carbon steel on a Venev stone.

People have disliked sukenari hap40 and I have not tried it but its a thicker convex grind and the difference may be the grind or the extra hard heat treat they tend to do.
 
Justinv said:
I also noted I had good results sharpening 10V with a Venev 800. I haven’t tried sharpening magnacut yet. Anyway my general experience is these thin behind the edge wear resistant steels with good heat treat sharpen up almost as easily as say blue 1 carbon steel on a Venev stone.

People have disliked sukenari hap40 and I have not tried it but its a thicker convex grind and the difference may be the grind or the extra hard heat treat they tend to do.
Click to expand...
Yea I’m really curious to use my new venev on some of these steels. It’s good to know about the sukenari as those have been on my radar as well but ultimately sounds like thinness behind the edge is helpful with these steels. My inclination is to go with something from hsc in the cruwear or a DT magnacut (not easy to come by however) if going the wearer maker route.
 
Justinv said:
I own kitchen knives in 5 different PM steels. Hap40 is my favorite. Mine is a thin laser 170mm. It gets screaming sharp and holds a blistering sharp edge for a long while. I sharpen with a venev 800. It is frequently used for small tasks and sees a lot of use. More wear resistant steels I own like K390 don’t get as sharp and its a noticeable issue on tomatoes. So I think this hits the edge retention + sharpness + ease of sharpening + toughness of the steels I have tried the best but only if ground thin behind the edge.
Click to expand...
Your K390 doesn't get as sharp as other steels? 🤔 That's really weird. We can achieve a BESS score of 8 at 14 dps on K390, which is a truly world class sharpness level. And, it holds that super sharp edge for a long time.
 
Danejah said:
Yea I’m really curious to use my new venev on some of these steels. It’s good to know about the sukenari as those have been on my radar as well but ultimately sounds like thinness behind the edge is helpful with these steels. My inclination is to go with something from hsc in the cruwear or a DT magnacut (not easy to come by however) if going the wearer maker route.
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I haven’t heard complaints about sukenari hap40. In my experience it is excellent, very good, do it all general purpose gyuto.. Sukenari in general does different steels well and uses some interesting choices. I wouldn’t hesitate to get hap 40 from them and you won’t have any problems sharpening with venev you got.
 
Danejah said:
Yea I’m really curious to use my new venev on some of these steels. It’s good to know about the sukenari as those have been on my radar as well but ultimately sounds like thinness behind the edge is helpful with these steels. My inclination is to go with something from hsc in the cruwear or a DT magnacut (not easy to come by however) if going the wearer maker route.
Click to expand...
Geometry matters a lot for all this. K390 sharpens perfectly fine on diamond stones. In most cases people have trouble when using conventional stones, geometry is thick, or bad heat treat makes deburring difficult. There are very few options getting kitchen knives in higher wear resistant steels such as 10v or k390 and all the makers that use these know what they are doing, so I wouldn’t hesitate to try these from the well known makers whom specialize in kitchen knives. With diamond stones you can pick any steel really, so you should look at other attributes to pick your knife.
 
SABOL BROTHERS said:
Your K390 doesn't get as sharp as other steels? 🤔 That's really weird. .
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nope. Not the one I own in K390. I can easily get it to cut paper towels but it still has some resistance on tomato skins. Same issue with another very wear resistant knife I have from the same maker. I’ve had both for a long time.

I had no issues getting the @Blank Blades 10V knife passaround I tried tomato whittling sharp in a couple minutes. That 10V wasn’t really more effort than blue 1 on a diamond stone. There is minimal difference in k390 and 10v. I have no issues with hap40 and other PM steels I own, all are easy to sharpen on my diamond stones. Maybe the heat treat of K390 from that maker is an issue. As noted, very few makers work with this class of steels and they all know what they are doing. My assumption was there is a penalty to pay in sharpenability when you get steels above hap40/magnacut level steel.
 
Justinv said:
nope. Not the one I own in K390. I can easily get it to cut paper towels but it still has some resistance on tomato skins. Same issue with another very wear resistant knife I have from the same maker. I’ve had both for a long time.

I had no issues getting the @Blank Blades 10V knife passaround I tried tomato whittling sharp in a couple minutes. That 10V wasn’t really more effort than blue 1 on a diamond stone. There is minimal difference in k390 and 10v. I have no issues with hap40 and other PM steels I own, all are easy to sharpen on my diamond stones. Maybe the heat treat of K390 from that maker is an issue. As noted, very few makers work with this class of steels and they all know what they are doing. My assumption was there is a penalty to pay in sharpenability when you get steels above hap40/magnacut level steel.
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My assumption is, the Blank Blades is much thinner behind the edge than the knives in K390? 🤷‍♂️ Unless the heat treatment on the K390 is less than optimal.
 
I don’t think it is the heat treat. Even if it wasn’t optimal it should still cut tomatoes, the question would be for how long? Even if it had too much retained austenite deburring would be difficult, but if it cuts paper towel it should cut tomatoes. Sometimes very polished edges cut paper towel, but slip on tomato skins, not the case here though with 800 venev. Must be geometry somehow.
 
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