Project knife recommendation

[naptight]

Hello. I'm about a year into my J knife journey. I really want to step up my experience with a project knife. I want to learn how to get the best performance out of a blade with “great bones.” I've read plenty of tales about the love affairs with Denkas that grow out of spending quality time reworking them. And I want that for myself. I'm tempted to just buy one for this project. But, I'm sure I can get something with similarly great guts for much less to practice on before I take the leap on a pricey TF. I'm also still learning about my preferences, so I'd like this project knife to be another thing that will help me learn if I want to size up or size down, go thicker or thinner, etc.

LOCATION
USA

KNIFE TYPE
Gyuto or nakiri. I have two 240mm gyutos which are very different. One is AEBL by MSC and the other is the munetoshi nashiji. I haven't used either enough. They're both just a little bit too big in my kitchen. Hopefully, I will be able to buy a home soon and will have more counter space to use these. So I need a 210mm gyuto. I'm trying to keep an open mind about work horses and heavier knives, but so far I definitely prefer the lighter lasers.

I also want to try a nikiri. I have a 165 santoku which I really love using, but I I want a bigger flat spot and a little more length for push cutting. So I'm thinking a 180 mm

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa all the way

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210 gyuto or
180 tall nakiri (I think this makes the most sense. It will help me know if I will want to size down or up on the next one.)

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
I definitely prefer stainless cladding

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$600 (willing to spend much less on this project )

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
All purpose. Vegetables.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Adding to my collection

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Mostly push cutting

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Comfort
Overall sharpness
That “it factor”
Less drag. My mono gyuto has terrible drag. It’s got a 300 grit finish, it's sharp, but it really struggles to do horizontal cuts in onions for example.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
End grain maple

Do you sharpen your own knives?
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? Yes if needed. I have:
DMD 150/320 diamond
Shapton Glass 500, 2000
JKI 6000 resinoid

Please recommend me something if I need it. I was thinking about just making a sandpaper block or getting some finger stones for finishing the bevels.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Like I said I'm tempted to just get a denka. I kind of want this to be a budget denka experience if that makes sense. To be honest I don't even know what you would consider the grind on the Denkas to be (are they lasers, are they work horses?). The laminated in house, high hardness, high level of sharpenability all appeal to me.

I'd like something that has appeal to others here and has some sort of either collector value or performance value. I'm not sure if it's very realistic, but I love to idea of buying something that comes very “rough” from the maker that will be worth a good bit more in a BST after it gets hot rodded.

I've seen the praise that these Okubo Kajiya Nakiri-bocho 180mm Aogami #2 from KnifeJapan get. I might have just pulled the trigger on one of these, but they are
out of stock and I believe they are not stainless clad.

Thank you.

 

[M1k3]

http://www.nakayaheiji.co.jp/order_english.html

 

[naptight]

http://www.nakayaheiji.co.jp/order_english.html

Tell me more

 

[nopomo]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/heiji-direct.52452/

 

[refcast]

I have a couple knives I need to work on right now but i have a ton of rusty bent chipped or dull nakiri. . . Even some Japanese knife blanks, depends how rough you're wanting, though I usually refinish all knives

 

[Qapla']

What do you think of these?

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yoastana18.html (It's at Chef Knives to Go.)
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yofuwh1tana.html (As above.)

 

[blokey]

Daovua?

 

[timebard]

Couple things:

Ironclad will be easier to work on than stainless clad, and a lot of rough/rustic knives that would make good cheap projects are ironclad shiro/aogami.

Okubo nakiri is a great project knife, if you're willing to make putting a handle on part of your project email Michael at knifeJapan and maybe he can get an order in for you?

If @refcast offers you something cool, take it!

Temper your expectations on being able to make money off cleaning up project knives. You could spend a lot of hours regrinding, polishing, etc and at the end of the day nobody may be willing to pay even the original price for it.

 

[M1k3]

Tell me more

Does swedish carbon and stainless clad semi-stainless (probably SKD12/A2). Great steel properties for both, great profile. Comes with meh f&f, some slightly rough edges, handle might be slightly off center or rotated. He grinds low wide bevels. But he'll customize the specs, within some limits, for you.

Makes a great burnt chestnut handle.

From the time you order until the time you receive, it'll be about 4-6 months.

In my opinion, he makes a great knife that's usable out of the box. But with a little work, it'll be an even better great knife!

 

[refcast]

The knives I've made money off of on kkf . . . Maybe handful? 5? About 5% or less of things I've bought. Its pretty low, and even then usually a little over and not covering labor or supplies at all, and those supplies, abrasives, get used up. So it's not practical at all. See @ethompson polishes as well.

For example. I reground and finished a honyaki gyuto here. I was able to sell it only for break even still after a couple months. So idk haha.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/240mm-honyaki-gyuto.56656/

 

[naptight]

Thanks.

The knives I've made money off of on kkf . . . Maybe handful? 5? About 5% or less of things I've bought. Its pretty low, and even then usually a little over and not covering labor or supplies at all, and those supplies, abrasives, get used up. So it's not practical at all. See @ethompson polishes as well.

For example. I reground and finished a honyaki gyuto here. I was able to sell it only for break even still after a couple months. So idk haha.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/240mm-honyaki-gyuto.56656/

I pm'd you on a project knife.

That honyaki is insane! Awesome work!

I definitely don't expect to make money in a revenue generating sense. What I mean is all of the knives I've bought are sub $200 and just seem kind of random. They're mostly stamped or machine forged and the manufacturers aren't sexy. They perform real well with thin grinds and sand blasted kasumi. But other than a little rounding of the spine and choil there's nothing worth doing to them. And they aren't going to generate any interest in a WTT.

While a Heiji is probably sub $200 but with great steel, heat treat and hand made appeal. A stone polish will definitely add value to it, if not monetarily at least and interest. Right?

 

[naptight]

@M1k3 I'll check out nakaya heiji. That steel sound perfect for me.

 

[naptight]

Daovua?

I really don't like the 52100 steel on the pretty I have. It's just too reactive for me. It was always tainting the flavor of my food and made my hands smell. I like how hand made it is. And the handle is really nice. Maybe if they do different steel for their Gen 4 knives I'll pick one up.

 

[naptight]

What do you think of these?

https://www.**************.com/yoastana18.html (It's at Chef Knives to Go.)
https://www.**************.com/.html (As above.)

These look super cool! But probably a little too big given I still feel the need to learn my preferences and I haven't even tried a standard 165mm. I have a cck1302 that I don't use much because it's pretty uncomfortable to me and has a lot of drag. These look like they're close to cleaver size. Id like to try a 180mm nakiri but only a little taller than average, like 60-65mm, to keep the weight down.

 

[jaydee]

I really don't like the 52100 steel on the pretty I have. It's just too reactive for me.

That is weird! 52100 has >1% carbon and is far from being very reactive.
I love mine for those reasons. Develops a nice patina but is easy to care for.

Maybe you have a knife that is not monosteel but with iron cladding?
I would bet on it!
Most of their recent offerings seems to be monosteel so you should be fine.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

If you want a knife to work on, I very much encourage reconsidering stainless clad and giving iron cladding more thought. The iron cladding will be much nicer to work with.

Moritaka nakiri or bunka is worth considering.

But "project" knife is going to mean different things. A lot of knives don't need anything more than a new edge for performance. In that case you're talking more polishing type stuff and for that you have somewhat different requirements up front.

You might want to consider just getting a budget knife you really like and using the hell out of it. Over time, you will bond with it and it will become "your" knife. And thinning and such will bring your own character to it over time.

 

[Jovidah]

While a Heiji is probably sub $200 but with great steel, heat treat and hand made appeal. A stone polish will definitely add value to it, if not monetarily at least and interest. Right?

Wrong.

Project knives can be a nice way to get decent value fot yourself (if you can tweak a cheap one into a better performer) or as an educational experience. But the premise that it would improve its sellability is really a false one.

 

[Johnsmyname]

Find an inexpensive knife on https://knifejapan.com/ and then use it to practice/work on. You can email the owner Michael and ask him for suggestions based on what you want. He’s very responsive and super nice.

 

[ehhh]

If you want something like a Denka without the price you could consider these Morihei Hisamotos which are made by TF, come at various pricepoints depending on whether they have a bolster or are "fine finish." They're pretty much the same grind/profile as my Denka which I would call a midweight. They are not stainless cladding though. If the retailer has several, you may want to email them and ask for the straightest one. Even the fine finish ones can be pretty wavy.

https://tetogi.com/collections/mori...uchi-white-1-gyuto-210mm-pakka-act-no-bolster

 

[NickMinton]

Find an inexpensive knife on https://knifejapan.com/ and then use it to practice/work on. You can email the owner Michael and ask him for suggestions based on what you want. He’s very responsive and super nice.

Came to say this. I think @KasumiJLA has done this in the past

 

[KasumiJLA]

Came to say this. I think @KasumiJLA has done this in the past

I did and I use this gyuto from Ide san every week! It was a fun knife to polish and the grind is really nice. For the price paid I'm sure it's something hard to beat. Yeah I had to make some adjustments but I knew it was going to be a small project.

Here's the thread about this knife

 

[refcast]

Here's the weird knives in question

Fat kiritsuke tip blank, single bevel without hollow

122 g
6.3mm at tang
to 5.5 at heel, to 2.5mm halfway to 1.8mm at tip
37mm at heel, 40mm halfway

136mm edge

 

[refcast]

165m edge
52mm at heel to 56mm at midpoint
146g
5.5mm at neck
1.5m halfway
0.6mm at tip

 

[Johnsmyname]

That honyaki you did looked great. Working on those ones you just posted, damn. You need to really enjoy working on knives. I bet the supplies cost double the rough metal.

 

[naptight]

I have a good imagination but I can't see the beauty in that bunka. Anyone who would take that on with just stones and sandpaper is a better man than me.

I have a 2x72 grinder. But, I'm not ready to start using it on knives. Looking for a less stimulating stones only project.

 

[naptight]

That is weird! 52100 has >1% carbon and is far from being very reactive.
I love mine for those reasons. Develops a nice patina but is easy to care for.

Maybe you have a knife that is not monosteel but with iron cladding?
I would bet on it!
Most of their recent offerings seems to be monosteel so you should be fine.

I'm not sure? This is it tho

 

[jaydee]

I'm not sure? This is it tho

Not an expert but this looks like a cladding line to me if I´m not mistaken so I´d bet it is indeed an iron clad version.
Most of the new offerings seem to be 52100 mono steel which should make a nice project knife.

Other than that I´d suggest a monosteel SK steel knife as project knife.
These are usually very cheap, not too hard, often come too thick behind the edge and actually make a very nice knife for the money if you grind them right.
(Fujiwara FKH, Masakane, Kanetsune, Kogetsu, Morihei all have knives with SK steel; the latter 2 are more expensive)

 

[naptight]

If you want something like a Denka without the price you could consider these Morihei Hisamotos which are made by TF, come at various pricepoints depending on whether they have a bolster or are "fine finish." They're pretty much the same grind/profile as my Denka which I would call a midweight. They are not stainless cladding though. If the retailer has several, you may want to email them and ask for the straightest one. Even the fine finish ones can be pretty wavy.

https://tetogi.com/collections/mori...uchi-white-1-gyuto-210mm-pakka-act-no-bolster

Wait so this AS SS clad nakiri is very very denka like then?

I hadn't seen this version and I'm not into the riveted handles. But this one seems like a good fit for what I was looking for other than being a little smaller are more bellied.

 

[jaydee]

I bought exactly that nakiri and fitted a handle.
It is not a thin knife but not too thick either.
Mine definitely benefits from some thinning, especially towards the tip. Slowly working on it.
The profile is more of a constant curve than just flat.

The core steel is rock! hard and the stainless cladding also takes quite a bit more work than carbon.

You could call it a project knife but a very high end one with superb steel.

If you need more info or pictures just say so

 

[naptight]

I bought exactly that nakiri and fitted a handle.
It is not a thin knife but not too thick either.
Mine definitely benefits from some thinning, especially towards the tip. Slowly working on it.
The profile is more of a constant curve than just flat.

The core steel is rock! hard and the stainless cladding also takes quite a bit more work than carbon.

You could call it a project knife but a very high end one with superb steel.

If you need more info or pictures just say so

Yes I'd love to see pics of yours! I think I'll just order one. You're describing exactly what I realized I was looking for after thinking about taking on a "real" project knife like @refcast so technically offered. A handle, some thinning and polishing and good hard steel.

Tetogi has free shipping over $300. Anyone know if the mono Hitohira FJ VG10 is good? Or who makes it?