Q about Diamond Stones

[ptolemy]

Over the last few days, I read a bunch of topics here about them (going back 5+ years, based on searches, so maybe I missed something), The comments range from DMD ones being decent value to others saying they have no diamonds, to Venev being very good but hard to use, so other types, such as NSK, Naniwa, etc. There seems not to be a consensus about them. I think it's because they are used for many types of knife work, besides sharpening, such as edge work, thinning, reprofiling, thinning etc. Then, there are different steels, thickness, etc...

It feels like unless I have all of them here, there is no easy way to gauge how they will work for me. So, this leads me to a question:

If I limit my specific use to JUST sharpening of high V or W carbide steels (magnacut for example), and NOT worrying about thinning, polishing, re-profiling, etc would DMD stones be enough? I already own a set of 1k, 3k, 6k, 12k and used them a few times on magnacut and it def sharpens, but I am wondering if there is something out there that's better for my specific use. My knives are not perfect, they def have visible scratches from previously poor sharpening, etc.. I have made my piece with that

TIA

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

There's a lot of varied discussion about diamond stones because there's a lot of different types of diamond stones. It absolutely can get confusing. Rather than focusing on name brands right now, to better understand things, focus on the adherence/bonding method.

If the DMD's are going to be plated just like Atoma, DMT, Ultra Sharp and others then the chief downside to plated stones is longevity. The diamonds strip off the plate. But for a casual home user this may take several years and not really be a concern. The other issue with plated stones is the potential for deep scratches. This can be mitigated somewhat through pressure, but for just routine sharpening and not trying to obtain a pretty blade surface, again, this is probably not much of concern.

Resin bonded, metallic bonded, and sintered stones will last far longer, produce a much better edge, and are often made with higher quality and consistent abrasive. But they are expensive and often require a more complicated way of refreshing the surface.

For your needs that you described I think plated diamonds will be just fine. They've gotten me by for a number of years. I don't think DMD has the best reputation for quality but I have no first hand experience.

Others have much more knowledge and experience and may provide deeper or different answers.

 

[ReiHamono]

Consider CGSW as well

I would recommend purchasing just one first. The first stone should be the lowest grit you use to set geometry

 

[Rangen]

It feels like unless I have all of them here, there is no easy way to gauge how they will work for me.

This is the path I have chosen, both for diamond stones and for exotic steels in pocketknives. Here's what I've concluded for sharpening:

I don't really like to sharpen on plates. I find the feel unpleasant, and the scratches are annoyingly aggressive. The phase of sharpening where you are trying to converge on a fine edge feels thwarted somehow.

I prefer the feel of hard stones. In synthetic waterstones, hat has led me to prefer the Shapton Glass series. In diamond, it has meant that my absolute favorites are the hardest variant of the NSK stones, and the BBB stones.

The Naniwa stones are not as hard as those, but still darned hard. They are excellent, and a pleasure to sharpen on.

I think the results I get on all three types are about comparable. Most of my exotic-steel pocketknife sharpening is done on a single stone from each line: NSK 800, BBB 1000, or Naniwa 600. Sometimes I use the BBB 400 and strop on a Nanohone diamond resin 3 micron. I don't use the Nanohone diamonds for sharpening, just thinning on the coarser ones, and stropping on the finer ones.

I don't like the Venev stones as much, and can't get results as good on them, at least without a lot more work. That may well be on me. A steady diet of hard stones does not prepare me well for a softer stone, for which gouging can come into the picture, and I just can't get the same consistent grasp of the feedback that tells me where the edge is. However, on a guided sharpening system, the small versions work very well for me, since I don't need the feedback, and gouging is not an issue.

 

[ptolemy]

This is the path I have chosen, both for diamond stones and for exotic steels in pocketknives. Here's what I've concluded for sharpening:

I don't really like to sharpen on plates. I find the feel unpleasant, and the scratches are annoyingly aggressive. The phase of sharpening where you are trying to converge on a fine edge feels thwarted somehow.

I prefer the feel of hard stones. In synthetic waterstones, hat has led me to prefer the Shapton Glass series. In diamond, it has meant that my absolute favorites are the hardest variant of the NSK stones, and the BBB stones.

The Naniwa stones are not as hard as those, but still darned hard. They are excellent, and a pleasure to sharpen on.

I think the results I get on all three types are about comparable. Most of my exotic-steel pocketknife sharpening is done on a single stone from each line: NSK 800, BBB 1000, or Naniwa 600. Sometimes I use the BBB 400 and strop on a Nanohone diamond resin 3 micron. I don't use the Nanohone diamonds for sharpening, just thinning on the coarser ones, and stropping on the finer ones.

I don't like the Venev stones as much, and can't get results as good on them, at least without a lot more work. That may well be on me. A steady diet of hard stones does not prepare me well for a softer stone, for which gouging can come into the picture, and I just can't get the same consistent grasp of the feedback that tells me where the edge is. However, on a guided sharpening system, the small versions work very well for me, since I don't need the feedback, and gouging is not an issue.

ty for this!

i was actually looking at venex 400/800 as my primary, since from what I can tell i translates to approx 1k/3k normal shapton glass grit style...

i am not sure if I sharpen enough to justify more stones... I only have 3 PM steel knives (not counting pocket ones). DMD (which is what I have right now) may work for me, but I was sorta curious how much better are other options..... especially that venev

 

[sumis]

i don't know **** about anything, but i find that the dmd i have (150/400) is not great at all for sharpening. the 150 is excellent for flattening though, so that's where it is used. no need to spend double the price on an atoma for flattening purposes only.

.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Over the last few days, I read a bunch of topics here about them (going back 5+ years, based on searches, so maybe I missed something), The comments range from DMD ones being decent value to others saying they have no diamonds, to Venev being very good but hard to use, so other types, such as NSK, Naniwa, etc. There seems not to be a consensus about them. I think it's because they are used for many types of knife work, besides sharpening, such as edge work, thinning, reprofiling, thinning etc. Then, there are different steels, thickness, etc...

It feels like unless I have all of them here, there is no easy way to gauge how they will work for me. So, this leads me to a question:

If I limit my specific use to JUST sharpening of high V or W carbide steels (magnacut for example), and NOT worrying about thinning, polishing, re-profiling, etc would DMD stones be enough? I already own a set of 1k, 3k, 6k, 12k and used them a few times on magnacut and it def sharpens, but I am wondering if there is something out there that's better for my specific use. My knives are not perfect, they def have visible scratches from previously poor sharpening, etc.. I have made my piece with that

Diamond will cut but personally I don’t think there is a MASSIVE difference between the brands. Magnacut is going to be slow on everything. That is the trade off for this kind of steel. If your Diamond plates are not very clearly losing its diamonds I would recommend to stick with them.

Sigma Power ceramic series (not select II series) stones do particularly well with hard to abrade steels. Very limited grit options, a little pricey, and generally hard to find outside of Japan. Their 1K and 2K are VERY good stones.

Norton crystalon does pretty good too. Very coarse, quite friable, but easy on the wallet. I recommend giving one a try.

 

[TB_London]

The DMD are cheaper than others and I find them fairly slow- fine for touch ups, but wouldn’t want to use for wide bevel work or redoing an edge.
In partnership with Atoma/DMT they’re useful for PM steels.
Unless you’re using high carbide super steels I wouldn’t bother. If you’re using super steels a lot then prob worth spending more on Venev etc (I’ve not got any firsthand experience, but hear good things).
If you have one or two and want to give them a spin to scratch an itch then DMD is an ok entry.

 

[blokey]

DMD contain diamond, but also quite a bit of silicone carbide with grit sizes inconsistent to their grit rating
https://scienceofsharp.com/2021/02/19/that-resin-bonded-diamond-stone-part-2/