Question about TF Maboroshi

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by Koakuma, Sep 16, 2019.

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  1. Oct 16, 2019 #271

    Corradobrit1

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    Based on my limited experience I think you are right. But they are hand-forged and there is considerable blade to blade variation with TF's. My Ku finishes have held up extremely well but I only wash with water and wipe them dry with a cloth towel.
     
  2. Oct 16, 2019 #272

    SilverSwarfer

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    Is this a Moboroshi or a Denka? Or neither:?
     

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  3. Oct 16, 2019 #273

    Corradobrit1

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    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  4. Oct 17, 2019 #274

    nyc

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    Is that rust in the kanji? Looks cool though.
     
  5. Oct 17, 2019 #275

    Corradobrit1

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    Cladding is stainless steel so not rust. Its a residual effect from the forging process. Cool.... yes
     
  6. Oct 17, 2019 #276

    lemeneid

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    Is that yours? You're lucky, thats a VERY thin Denka.
     
  7. Oct 17, 2019 #277

    RDalman

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    Stainless can indeed rust in the right conditions. I wouldnt think they're forged after getting the kanji/logo stamps? The ones I've handled have definately looked like rust there. Maybe some chemical process is used in finishing that causes it.
     
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  8. Oct 17, 2019 #278

    captaincaed

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    StainLESS not stainFREE. Enough heat and other chemicals, it can happen. It's wabi sabi brand, may be worth cleaning carefully even if the KU finish suffers a bit. Not sure how much rust will progress in that stainless, but as a sailor I don't trust rust anywhere. YMMV
     
  9. Oct 17, 2019 #279

    Corradobrit1

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    Its not rust as it doesn't rub off. Probably some residual artifact from one of their manufacturing
    processes. Here are some extreme but IMO beautiful examples of the discoloration.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.43.28 AM.png Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.47.24 AM.png
     
  10. Oct 17, 2019 #280

    Corradobrit1

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    They get their stamp markings fairly early in the manufacture process
    Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.52.21 AM.png Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.52.34 AM.png Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.52.46 AM.png Screen Shot 2019-10-17 at 9.52.56 AM.png
     
  11. Oct 17, 2019 #281

    captaincaed

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    Wow nice research!
     
  12. Oct 17, 2019 #282

    RDalman

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    Unusual process for sure :)
     
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  13. Oct 17, 2019 #283

    Keith Sinclair

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    As I mentioned my stainless clad hammer finish specks of darker color looks like pitting in the cladding. I like it adds to the forged look of the blade.
     
  14. Oct 17, 2019 #284

    Corradobrit1

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  15. Oct 17, 2019 #285

    inferno

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    of course its rust, what else would it be? the stamp is most likely made out of carbon steel and then it will rust where the stainless is stamped. the carbon particles rub off and embed in the stainless and then the ss is compromised.

    its a BIG nono using carbon steel brushes/tools etc on stainless, since they stop being stainless. also you keep your stainless tools separate from carbon such as grinding discs, cutoff discs etc so you dont contaminate the ss. extremely important when welding for instance.

    in pretty much all industries that work with ss you usually use an acid to etch the carbon particles off, hydrofluoric acid paste.

    I tried to heat up 2 blades by simply boiling in water to get the handles off. 1 kurosaki ss clad r2 and and 1 yoshikane ss clad skd11. these are both "hammered" in one way or another. they rusted like hell all over! and they started rusting very quickly too. in less than 30 seconds they were completely red/brown.

    anyone wanna guess why?
     
  16. Oct 17, 2019 #286

    M1k3

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    Salty water!?!?
     
  17. Oct 17, 2019 #287

    HRC_64

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    This comment shouldn't be controversial, but just wait...;)
     
  18. Oct 17, 2019 #288

    HRC_64

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    "Its rust coloured patina" :D
     
  19. Oct 18, 2019 #289

    ian

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    Totally. Everyone knows that you have to salt the water when boiling knives. I also add a few drops of olive oil to keep the knives from sticking together.
     
  20. Oct 18, 2019 #290

    M1k3

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    Then once your done, add a splash of your knife boiling water to your stone water. Bon appetit!
     
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  21. Oct 18, 2019 #291

    inferno

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    No. they use carbon steel tools on the SS to make the hammered patterns. And then obviously didn't etch the carbon steel particles off. Thats why the they rusted. The boiling water just sped the process up.
     
  22. Oct 18, 2019 #292

    inferno

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    Its not really controversial since this phenomenon has been well known for over 100 years now. its acually just common sense.
     
  23. Oct 18, 2019 #293

    Corradobrit1

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    So the orange on a large proportion of the blade in the 3rd picture I posted is rust?
     
  24. Oct 18, 2019 #294

    inferno

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    most likely.

    My boiled SS yoshikane looked like the nakiri you posted above but it had that rust color all over. and it did not rub off with a sponge.
    had to sand it off with fine sandpaper which took about 1,5h. i had to do each little dimple separately with my thumb to get it off.

    However i think that rust layer thickness is very thin, since the underlaying ss is still stainless. the surface was obviously not though.
     
  25. Oct 18, 2019 #295

    lemeneid

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    Why are you boiling knives? Boiling them won’t make them al dente.
     
  26. Oct 18, 2019 #296

    HRC_64

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    Yes...its red (iron) oxide..

    Keep in mind the black is "black" oxide
     
  27. Oct 18, 2019 #297

    HRC_64

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  28. Oct 18, 2019 #298

    inferno

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    I tried to warm the blade to get the tang warm the glue would soften. So i could remove the handle. turned out both of them were epoxied.. so i had to crack them off. :)
     
  29. Oct 18, 2019 #299

    inferno

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    I have made my own "rust bluing". i used hydrogen peroxide/ table salt and an acid to create red rust. then i boiled it in water to convert it to black oxide.

    But my yoshikane/kurosaki blades never got to the black state since i removed them as soon as i noticed that they started to rust. and they weren't supposed to rust at all, they are stainless, austenitic stainless too, which is 10 times more stainless than hardenable SS.
     
  30. Oct 18, 2019 #300

    inferno

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