Questions about: HT stamped vs forged

[ModRQC]

In searching for cheaper J-knives to mess around with, I of course fell on a lot of offers for stamped blades. The hardness for the stamped steels seemed to match that of forged steels, relatively speaking. And I wondered: who does the HT, the manufacturer who rolls the sheets, or the maker?

It's a bit of a continuity to my questions about prelaminated. It's just pretty foggy in my head, the process of stamping knives out of steel sheets or I guess other presentations are possible, vs. the process of forging the knife, not of itself (stamp vs. forge is an obvious distinction), but the details of it, how it correlates or doesn't correlate with HT, quality, how it may or may not change things, and who does what.

So as always, I'm counting on the more knowledgeable folks around here to enlighten me and realign my thoughts with reality.

Thank you very much for any input.

 

[inferno]

you can't stamp/blank hardened steel. some steel cant even be blanked unhardened. it just destroys the tooling.

the ht and quality of the steel can be exactly the same. **** in **** out as always.

 

[ModRQC]

Makes total sense.

Now, I know that in forging, there is carbon diffusion/loss. Probably, other depreciation and also some advantages, but let's keep my words within what I'm sure of. Will the same happen when the untreated steel is hot-rolled or whatever the process used to make a final format that is suitable to stamp?

And then again, I also know that in forging, some makers can really enhance the properties of their steel. I've heard this of TF among others. This is a capability lost in a stamped blade I assume?

 

[M1k3]

Simplistically, forged vs stamped, heated and tempered the same way, will have the same end results.

 

[inferno]

Makes total sense.

Now, I know that in forging, there is carbon diffusion/loss. Probably, other depreciation and also some advantages, but let's keep my words within what I'm sure of. Will the same happen when the untreated steel is hot-rolled or whatever the process used to make a final format that is suitable to stamp?

And then again, I also know that in forging, some makers can really enhance the properties of their steel. I've heard this of TF among others. This is a capability lost in a stamped blade I assume?

usually forging was done when the steel didn't come in a suitable shape for blades, such as rounds, hexagonal and similar. then you have to forge it down to suitable thickness. these days many steels comes in sheet so there is no real reason to forge them, unless you want to forgeweld it to other steel.

hot rolling is forging. all steels except cast steels are already forged at the steel mill. and not only that, it usually comes with optimal properties to get the best/finest grain structure after hardening.

when you forge steel manually it gets coarse grained and that have to be dealt with before hardening.

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And then again, I also know that in forging, some makers can really enhance the properties of their steel

i kinda doubt that!! its highly questionable that they will produce something that is better than when the steel came from the mill. they dont have these million dollar machines there just for fun.

 

[ModRQC]

But then it seems to indicate that a majority of J makers do have that power hammer and finishing hammer there just for fun... or for the sake of working much more painstakingly than they should.

So this is all a tradition kind of thing? I mean, where even in the modern scheme of things, and pitted against more and more "large" manufacturers of knives even within their own territory that don't charge so much less for a process mostly programmed and automated?

 

[M1k3]

Tradition and shaping it "close enough" to the end product. Distal taper, tang, fancy cladding line, etc.

 

[VICTOR J CREAZZI]

hot rolling is forging. all steels except cast steels are already forged at the steel mill

True, but rolling direction does matter in this case.