That is another whole new level I don't want to compare with, but yeah basically I have the same thought about it. I guess him being old kinda makes his knife more expensive?
Raquin knives
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Forty Ounce
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No.. it's because they are handmade.
Eloh
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Although this is borderline troll-ish....
...his knives do perform and forging it to form like he does requires arguebaly more skill than doing it on the belt grinder or mirror polishing a blade. Also aesthetics are purely subjective, that shouldnt be hard to understand.
...his knives do perform and forging it to form like he does requires arguebaly more skill than doing it on the belt grinder or mirror polishing a blade. Also aesthetics are purely subjective, that shouldnt be hard to understand.
What is your definition of "special"? If you're judging a knife by looks, then aren't you kind of blaspheming the entire purpose of a knife all together? At the end of the day, a knife is used to cut. Anything after that is subjective. Bryan's knives can CUT, oh boy can they CUT, and they're priced very well for what they are.
Zwilling makes a ton of different, "special" knives, and they've been around forever. By your definition, they must be legendary.
That's why I didn't include Kato in the discussion. I'm not saying that the aesthetic is the most important quality of a knife at all. I'm just saying in the era of abundance of great performance custom knives, why choose a knife that performs well, but doesn't look unique. I thought the whole reason you pay a premium for a custom is to get a unique looking knife, no? It's totally fine to be minimalistic, but that tends to lower the cost and thus lowers the selling price. And no, Zwilling special knives are not 'legendary for the simple fact that they don't perform'. I think the metaphor of applying to university works here. When there are so many students with 4.00GPA/grade A (cutting performance) from high school, why choose the student with only good grade, but not amazing array of extracurricular activities (knife aesthetic) as well?
Panamapeet
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But Zwilling isn’t even a legendary swordsmith
That's the thing, there isn't an abundance of "great performance" knife makers.
There are a lot of custom knife makers. Then, there are a decent amount of custom knife makers that make decent knives. Then, you have the few that make exceptional knives.
Forty Ounce
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How is 600 a premium? That's a pretty good price for a properly forged blade.. it sounds to me like you just don't like KU knives.
Honestly, I think you're talking to the wrong people. Just shoot Bryan an email/DM telling him that he needs to lower his prices and to make more special knives.
Isasmedjan only charges about 400USD for his regular knives, for example. People also seems to be happy with the performance of his knives. Or does it performs inferiorly to Raquin's? Idk for certain though, since I've never tried either.
I think they look special. I do not think there is a lot of variety in the look though.
The purpose of buying a custom is not aesthetics though it is part. Minimalistic does not lower price in any product, a lot of designs in chairs, kitchens etc. are minimalistic. I hate garish and bright colours and dislike a lot of damascus. I'm not alone, and people pay for clean looks at a premium. I think you and I have such a different thought process we cannot come closer to understanding each other. Or you are a troll hacking Briochy in boredom of Corona.
But aren't there so many other kurouchi knives with great performance?
Forty Ounce
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Easy solution.. buy them and see for yourself. I realize this solution doesn't include you causing drama on the forums, but I think it's for the best..
Elliot
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For the sake of trying to be civil and helpful. . . I post the following.
To the OP: Some of the things you have said are insulting, whether or not you intend them to be. And, to be honest, show perhaps a disconnect that I would implore you to consider. I say perhaps to be civil.
Fundamentally speaking, knives are kitchen tools. That's it. That's what they are. That should help you understand some things.
As for Raquin, the lack of different looks, fancy handles, etc. is because Bryan, and I say this relatively confidently though I am not Bryan, is not interested in making knives the way some other Western makers do. He wants to make tools, plain and simple. For personal taste, I love the rustic look and the French oak handles are perhaps the best I have held. The feel of natural wood is special. I digress.
Moral of the story is that Bryan's goal, I dare say only goal, in making a knife is that it will absolutely slay on the cutting board. And, for my money, I have yet to find a knife at ANY price point that is clearly and definitively better at doing that. "Better" is a subjective term so I add things like definitively to hopefully call off any response on what defines better. That's a personal definition. I have cut with Kato's, Shigs, old-stock Fujiyamas, River Jump, Heiji, all the major Sakai honyaki, Watanabe, several Yoshikane lines, about a dozen Western makers and more. There are others who have more experience, but I have used a fair shake at what these parts would call "the best."
TLDR: If you wanna cut ****, you pick up your Raquin.
To the OP: Some of the things you have said are insulting, whether or not you intend them to be. And, to be honest, show perhaps a disconnect that I would implore you to consider. I say perhaps to be civil.
Fundamentally speaking, knives are kitchen tools. That's it. That's what they are. That should help you understand some things.
As for Raquin, the lack of different looks, fancy handles, etc. is because Bryan, and I say this relatively confidently though I am not Bryan, is not interested in making knives the way some other Western makers do. He wants to make tools, plain and simple. For personal taste, I love the rustic look and the French oak handles are perhaps the best I have held. The feel of natural wood is special. I digress.
Moral of the story is that Bryan's goal, I dare say only goal, in making a knife is that it will absolutely slay on the cutting board. And, for my money, I have yet to find a knife at ANY price point that is clearly and definitively better at doing that. "Better" is a subjective term so I add things like definitively to hopefully call off any response on what defines better. That's a personal definition. I have cut with Kato's, Shigs, old-stock Fujiyamas, River Jump, Heiji, all the major Sakai honyaki, Watanabe, several Yoshikane lines, about a dozen Western makers and more. There are others who have more experience, but I have used a fair shake at what these parts would call "the best."
TLDR: If you wanna cut ****, you pick up your Raquin.
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Couple of things:
- Isasmedjan is fairly new. He won’t stay at these prices, I’m sure
- If you judge knives by their looks this ain’t a discussion because that’s subjective. A lot of people like the Rustic look, others don’t
- his handles are some of the if not the most comfortable ones out there (together with some Japanese burnt handles) - they are too long though (and he knows hehehe.... I’ve been trolling him about that for a while!)
- to say he “heat treats the steel To perfection” is a bold statement.... how do you judge that? Especially given that it’s close to impossible to compare as there few (maybe none) who are using the SC145 apart from him
- the F&F is OKAY-ISH, but that’s not the point: his knives are meant to be rustic imho
- performance: they are good. Amazing? I don’t know. I had four, still have 3. I grab Dalman and Smide over them any day ...
- performance 2: personal preference is important. Raquins CAN be amazing performers, but I’m not sure they are OUT OF THE BOX, at least not for everyone. Why? Bryan knows that most users have a personal preference and that’s how he makes his knives. They are best when tweaked to match your personal preference .... I know some hardcore Raquin collectors with a lot of his knives on hand and even they would agree with that assessment ....
- edit: regarding “Hype”: yah, they are somewhat hyped, but so what? Hype doesn’t mean something is bad. There’s a reason for hype. Omega Speedmaster (the “Moonwatch”) is certainly hyped, doesn’t mean it’s a bad watch. It’s a legendary watch. And Raquin is at least affordable Hype. Unlike Kato!
just my two cents
- Isasmedjan is fairly new. He won’t stay at these prices, I’m sure
- If you judge knives by their looks this ain’t a discussion because that’s subjective. A lot of people like the Rustic look, others don’t
- his handles are some of the if not the most comfortable ones out there (together with some Japanese burnt handles) - they are too long though (and he knows hehehe.... I’ve been trolling him about that for a while!)
- to say he “heat treats the steel To perfection” is a bold statement.... how do you judge that? Especially given that it’s close to impossible to compare as there few (maybe none) who are using the SC145 apart from him
- the F&F is OKAY-ISH, but that’s not the point: his knives are meant to be rustic imho
- performance: they are good. Amazing? I don’t know. I had four, still have 3. I grab Dalman and Smide over them any day ...
- performance 2: personal preference is important. Raquins CAN be amazing performers, but I’m not sure they are OUT OF THE BOX, at least not for everyone. Why? Bryan knows that most users have a personal preference and that’s how he makes his knives. They are best when tweaked to match your personal preference .... I know some hardcore Raquin collectors with a lot of his knives on hand and even they would agree with that assessment ....
- edit: regarding “Hype”: yah, they are somewhat hyped, but so what? Hype doesn’t mean something is bad. There’s a reason for hype. Omega Speedmaster (the “Moonwatch”) is certainly hyped, doesn’t mean it’s a bad watch. It’s a legendary watch. And Raquin is at least affordable Hype. Unlike Kato!
just my two cents
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@Briochy
You obviously have absolutely no idea what makes a good knife, and what you’re paying for when you buy one. The least important factor is aesthetics. Unless you’re buying your knives to display in your wall cabinet?
Raquin’s knives are forged entirely by hand including the profile. His sanmai technique is flawless and the heat treat on the steel is exemplary. Although superficially (read - to you) the knives all look the same - there are subtle differences in grind, and balance that make them all completely different functionally. As for the ku - that in itself performs a function : if you’ve ever cut with a mirror finished blade you will discover what stiction is all about.
Even the burnt oak handle is comfortable and functional. Raquin’s knives are TOOLS. In fact - all knives are. If you’re after aesthetics then look elsewhere if these don’t please your eye.
There is no hype. There is demand. And the demand exists because people know what they’re getting when they buy a Raquin.
He’s also been doing this for far longer than the likes of Isasmedjan and he is perfectly entitled to charge what he thinks is fair for his labor, experience and time.
This thread does nothing more than expose your ignorance in what a good knife is about.
It could perhaps hold a bit more water if you’d actually held one and cut with it, and those that you draw comparisons with.
You obviously have absolutely no idea what makes a good knife, and what you’re paying for when you buy one. The least important factor is aesthetics. Unless you’re buying your knives to display in your wall cabinet?
Raquin’s knives are forged entirely by hand including the profile. His sanmai technique is flawless and the heat treat on the steel is exemplary. Although superficially (read - to you) the knives all look the same - there are subtle differences in grind, and balance that make them all completely different functionally. As for the ku - that in itself performs a function : if you’ve ever cut with a mirror finished blade you will discover what stiction is all about.
Even the burnt oak handle is comfortable and functional. Raquin’s knives are TOOLS. In fact - all knives are. If you’re after aesthetics then look elsewhere if these don’t please your eye.
There is no hype. There is demand. And the demand exists because people know what they’re getting when they buy a Raquin.
He’s also been doing this for far longer than the likes of Isasmedjan and he is perfectly entitled to charge what he thinks is fair for his labor, experience and time.
This thread does nothing more than expose your ignorance in what a good knife is about.
It could perhaps hold a bit more water if you’d actually held one and cut with it, and those that you draw comparisons with.
This seems to be more of a credible review so far here. I'm not judging a knife purely by look at all. I'm just saying it seems a bit expensive for just kurouchi.
The whole reason I creates this thread is just for me to see if his knife would be worth buying or not lol. And I know what makes a good knife. It is you who obviously doesn't know how to read comprehensively. I've expressed my sentiments so many time I'm not gonna repeat here.
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Below is your opening statement. Strange it doesn’t make any mention of you wanting to buy one. Rather it’s full of criticism and ignorant remarks:
“Sorry if I'm being ignorant here... I'm just super confused why Raquin knives are so popular both on his website and in the BST section. It seems he uses minimal effort possible to make his knives as they are all kurouchi and not even any fancy handle. Somehow he manages to sell it 600$+ and people are waiting in a long hype line just to get one. There are 1,496 other knifemakers that use fancier handles and polish their knives to mirror finish with (presumably) equally good grind and some are at the same price or even cheaper. Where/when did this hype train start that causes people to buy an ordinary-looking knife just for the sake of having one? I mean, he is not even a legendary ancient swordsmith like TF”
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I’m not sure about the expensive part....
You say because it’s “just Kurouchi”, but what does that mean? It’s not a stock removal mono steel blade after all, it’s forged San Mai, and hes charging 1,80€ per mm for Gyutos. You’re paying extra for Kasumi finish.
So you’re paying about 410 USD for a regular Gyuto of 210 length.
Iasmedian charges up to 385 USD for a 210.
Here’s the difference though: that is excluding VAT, but Raquins prices are all incl VAT iirc and he does not offer taking the VAT off for non EU customers.... (it’s not that easy so not everyone offers it)
EDIT: I don’t know if Raquin charges VAT or not, sorry! Hence the : IIRC
so for a fair price comparison you have to add 25% Swedish VAT to Iasmedians prices which would put said 210 knife at 480 USD.... which is actually more expensive than a Raquin.
Just saying ...
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rob
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What a strange and dare I say ignorant and disrespectful post.
Fancy handles and mirror polish don't mean **** all with regards to how a knife performs. ( as you found out, then publicly rubbished a maker about a used knife you purchased)
Maybe it would be worthwhile spending a few years using, sharpening and evaluating the differences between knife makers, steels, heat treat and grinds before commenting further.
PS. Offering your expert opinion on Tansu heat treat and grind is also pretty classy.
Fancy handles and mirror polish don't mean **** all with regards to how a knife performs. ( as you found out, then publicly rubbished a maker about a used knife you purchased)
Maybe it would be worthwhile spending a few years using, sharpening and evaluating the differences between knife makers, steels, heat treat and grinds before commenting further.
PS. Offering your expert opinion on Tansu heat treat and grind is also pretty classy.
chefcomesback
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Briochy, completely wonder that myself along with a few others. No doubt its ignorance on my part, I've been in this hobby too long.
My only confrontational statement is its funny how brand new members are coming at you. Wish they had an ignore button on here.
My only confrontational statement is its funny how brand new members are coming at you. Wish they had an ignore button on here.
He Bryan, now we got the recipe..: instead of removing the low spots and scratches with your time consuming kasumi.. put each blade 5 minutes on a buffer wheel for a quick mirror and make $$$$ !
Seriously, his finish is a sign of quality. Mirror isn't.
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@Briochy I may very well be wrong, but seems to me that your real problem is almost more the actual price of custom knives and how that correlates to performance, which is largely a subjective value choice. However, given the price of Japanese knives these days, I'm surprised you don't have more of a problem with many of them too. In fact, the price of many Japanese knives these days makes Western custom makers begin to look like more and more of a bargain. A 240 gyuto from Watanabe, TF, Kagekiyo, and other higher-end brands from traditional retailers is easily going to run $450-600. When you consider that most of these Western smiths are one man shops who not only make the finished knives with all the associated production and equipment costs, but also do all the marketing, the online selling, the shipping, and customer service on top of their normal everyday lives, I'd say their prices are fairly reasonable.
Whether those prices are something you are willing to pay for their work and whether you think the performance/aesthetics merits the price is entirely up to you. There's no way to know for sure until you try them and no thread can truly change that.
Edit: I'd also add cost of living, as well as income and business taxes to factors to consider. If you've ever been self-employed or started a business then you'll understand how hugely these things impact a business model and how different they can be based on geographical location. I imagine the net income on a knife for most of these guys set into an hourly pay scale is pretty crappy.
Whether those prices are something you are willing to pay for their work and whether you think the performance/aesthetics merits the price is entirely up to you. There's no way to know for sure until you try them and no thread can truly change that.
Edit: I'd also add cost of living, as well as income and business taxes to factors to consider. If you've ever been self-employed or started a business then you'll understand how hugely these things impact a business model and how different they can be based on geographical location. I imagine the net income on a knife for most of these guys set into an hourly pay scale is pretty crappy.
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I gotta agree with the OP at least somewhat.......Those Frenchie blades are kinda "meh" TBH
Please elaborate on that: what is meh? The look of the “Frenchie” blades or the performance?
P.Smash
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They don't really blow my hair back.......But hey, if a simple, mostly adequate blade is your jam then roll with it Hoss
