rec req: functional knife & sharpening setup for normie

[sansho]

rec req: chef/gyuto, petty, and sharpening gear for my friend. my friend will likely never be a 'knife person' and also doesn't want to spend a lot, so i'm looking for ideas for stuff to recommend. what's a cheap, respectable setup for a normie?

usa
he's not going to put knives in the dishwasher and is willing to learn how to sharpen i guess.
he's right handed. doesn't care about wa/western handle. he wants stainless, but semi-stainless could possibly work. i'm thinking easy to sharpen and somewhat tough should be prioritized.

210mm gyuto/chef: an obvious choice for main knife

i think i've heard @daveb and others recommend mac pro like 100 times as a bulletproof, good-enough knife, so that's where i started looking. sounds like it would fit the bill for him.

is the mth-80 what i should be looking at? with sales going on, i was able to find it for $116 (+tax, free ship). if you see it cheaper, please lmk.

i'm definitely open to other ideas, though.

150mm petty: i think one of these would serve him well for smaller tasks and also for trimming meat. he likes to do roasts, bbq ribs and brisket, etc. although a petty has worked fine for me for that stuff, then again, maybe he'd be better off with some kind of boning knife? idk

i have no specific suggestions for him yet...

sharpening gear:

i can probably help him out with more serious issues, but what would be an ok option for him for regular maintenance?

first of all, for mac pro (and a yet-unspecified petty), i don't know how refined he should go. i am personally happy with my 6k jki diamond resinoid (out of budget, ofc), but i don't know if he has to go quite that high in grit.

my mind jumped to shapton glass because of slow dishing and splash n go, but maybe that's still overkill? depending on sale prices, that might actually work if he only needs one or maybe two stones...

i wonder if there are any worthwhile inexpensive double-sided stones? maybe that would be appropriate, but i have a feeling he would appreciate splash n go.

i think stropping would be good for him. i know i sure like it for my stuff, and stropping's easy to do.
i use 1µ diamond/cbn spray on a strop, but considering he's a normie and probably won't have any exotic steels, maybe Cr2O3 (green compound) would work just as well? that would save a few bucks. what do you think?

as for the strop itself, he's pretty handy and can probably make his own out of denim (or just use compounded-loaded cardboard for a while), but i guess he might just buy one if there's a decent one for cheap enough.

thanks, guys

 

[Dan-]

Put the budget for the strop toward the knives or stones. No “normy” is going to use a strop on a kitchen knife.

 

[Vertigo]

Get him a King combo for $30 and call it a day on the sharpening side of things.

 

[sansho]

perhaps i should clarify normie. he's a step above a clueless person who thinks knives go in dishwashers, but he's never going to be a knife person lusting after fancy knives. he's probably also not going to put in the time to become super good at sharpening, but i think he can become 'good enough'. i mean, at the end of the day, he's not going to have a choice if he wants his knife to work.

he works with tools all the time and loves to cook.

i think i can get him on board with stropping. it is pretty easy to do (certainly easier than proper sharpening). perhaps it can partially make up for lack of sharpening skill.

 

[blokey]

I honestly think Spyderco sharpmaker are good enough

 

[sansho]

I honestly think Spyderco sharpmaker are good enough

haha. i had one of those a super long time ago and failed to get good results, so i'm afraid to recommend that. then again, maybe i can find mine and just give it to him... it's probably in a box somewhere in my junk piles.

maybe he will have better results on a new knife in relatively good condition. when i used it, i knew nothing about sharpening, and i was also probably trying to sharpen really dull knives.

thanks for reminding me. that would be great if mine could be put to use.

 

[blokey]

haha. i had one of those a super long time ago and failed to get good results, so i'm afraid to recommend that. then again, maybe i can find mine and just give it to him... it's probably in a box somewhere in my junk piles.

maybe he will have better results on a new knife in relatively good condition. when i used it, i knew nothing about sharpening, and i was also probably trying to sharpen really dull knives.

thanks for reminding me. that would be great if mine could be put to use.

It’s never gonna shave paper towel but usually enough

 

[aporigine]

For a one-and-done stone, Shapton Pro 1k or perhaps the Rockstar. (and a few dollars for a cktg diamond flattening plate. A dished stone would be a game-ending turnoff for a casual sharpener. Imo)

I’ve never used a Mac but I see it recommended a lot. Sakai Takayuki Grand Chef is a solid option imo. None of the san-mai allure but they go and go. Yo handle is not an upcharge.

 

[mengwong]

when i used it, i knew nothing about sharpening, and i was also probably trying to sharpen really dull knives.

Agreed, I was so frustrated at first. I bought the Sharpmaker diamond rods. I wrapped sandpaper around them. Nothing was happening.

Some years later I now have the vocabulary to say that on the chonky cheap stainless I needed to grind the shoulders down substantially before a 15dps angle could even reach the apex, and that semi-thinning sort of job needed at least ten minutes of elbow grease on a 220–400 grit coarse.

Vertical slices against the grey medium stones would have taken hours, during which time no feedback short of sharpie and loupe would have given any sign that anything was happening at all. And the rods load up so quickly I would have had to scrub them at least a couple dozen times.

Once a <15° geometry is established the sharpmaker reveals itself as a master of the sweet spot between guided stones and steeling rod – a sweet spot that I didn’t even know existed!

 

[refcast]

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/hitohira-imojiya-mz-vg-1-gyuto-210mm-imitation-mahogany-handle

I highly recommend these VG1 stainless clad lasers, I've owned 2 but in a smaller size -- super lightweight like kiwis, thin at spine and behind edge, still tough and quite hard, the one I have to a relative hasnt chipped yet. Its a wood handle and half tang, so it balances a lot like a wa handle. The VG1 sharpens up better (less gummy) than molybdenum steel, is harder, more wear resistant, and isn't as rubbery weird as vg10. The steel acts like those around 60 hrc. The actual edge isn't sharpened super duper low angle or keen, so you can set that as you may want for him. Out of box edge is averageish

The advantage of a thinner knife is faster sharpening results, ease of maintenance, no thick edge shoulders

Disadvantage of this particular knife is the spine and choil should be rounded, and the ferrule step is a bit annoyingly abrupt. Theyl blades can also be very slightly bent, but can be bent back. Not super easy not super hard.

There's lots of good budget 210 gyuto out there, both monosteel and clad. Usually, the clad ones will be a little harder core steel vs the monosteel.

I'd recommend a suehiro combo stone. I gifted this one and have used it too suehiro 1000/3000 with case to soak the stone in

https://www.amazon.com/Suehiro-CR-3...lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=ABKQJEPSE65XE

The suehiro stones release grit really well and are some of the fastest synthetics I've used, as a brand. This will make sharpening very fast and easy to tell what's going on. You can tell your friend about the soaking stones, that it's a little inconvenient to soak them, but because they're porous they cut much faster, and in my opinion, leave a better edge. This formulation is a bit softer than their regular 1000 and 3000 full size stones, but is an excellent intro for basic sharpening (no thinning or repair work). I actually prefer the edge from this stone to my JKI 1000/3000/6000 diamond resin stones

 

[M1k3]

Just get all Mac's.

For sharpening stones, maybe Shapton Glass 500 and 2k or 3k. Add in a Shapton Pro case and he has a storage solution and stone holder all in one.

 

[Just a DK]

Just get all Mac's.

For sharpening stones, maybe Shapton Glass 500 and 2k or 3k. Add in a Shapton Pro case and he has a storage solution and stone holder all in one.

MTC has a suehiro sale now for debado's (splash and go) 1k and 3k are pretty good deal 30% off.
https://mtckitchen.com/collections/appreciation-offer-suehiro-sharpening-stones

Also has the storage solution, stone holder, and something to maintain surface all in one.

Best,

 

[sansho]

Rockstar

never heard of this before. unless i'm missing something, they seem like kind of a deal. people say they are similar to shapton glass dubbathicc.

on mtc rn, SG dubba500 is $63, and the RS 500's $38.
i'm tempted to gift him RS500 and RS3000 (38+49 = $87 total).

 

[M1k3]

never heard of this before. unless i'm missing something, they seem like kind of a deal. people say they are similar to shapton glass dubbathicc.

on mtc rn, SG dubba500 is $63, and the RS 500's $38.
i'm tempted to gift him RS500 and RS3000 (38+49 = $87 total).

Rockstar's are pretty much Glass stones without the base.

 

[sansho]

damn, missed the turkey20 20% off sale on cutleryandmore for mac pro knives. wt f – what kind of thanksgiving sale ends on nov10? was just about to buy mth-80 and pkf-60. guess i'll wait for black friday or something.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

To do it right, the focus should be on the sharpening gear first. Ya really should start out with a good foundation here and that includes flattening and a stone holder. I know, folks say you can get away with sandpaper and a brick and all that but I just think that is a crappy way to introduce sharpening to new people. Learning to sharpen can be daunting enough so might as well start out with decent gear. But, new people also scoff the most here so it takes some convincing.

A universal stone holder is around $20.

Atoma 140 for stone maintenance is $55.
https://www.amazon.com/Atoma-Diamond-Sharpener-Coarse-Grade-＃140/dp/B00BN32EXY/ref=sr_1_1?crid=23UKIZDY88J0Z&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OqrivuU-LCtvzol9G5EIgwDOGNV9e8qKepxy2xhVaiCQ6ukLvsjoAaZkijqqM3Mh3Ys9_yc4kO8ZzMJ_0PnjVhZ6_5Da6P6bCTHF-FUpihdSF4thdlNVdfO_7b6y7voWxlSPDuN9svRow41vMisHNlVVx1tvlDybHEsfY5ntU5tSHsvnhPn6P1M6JNaMxlkSHJXfhLgr5zF5rws2QVSQB7n2ZswD3vi_qNR_ryfPpDygW1hIdLJd5g9ULj_cj5HA1F8Bt_curwsxE7MSJgXj0FBvcaoK_3C0o_l34CmCF6Q.XSvV9n2QEq_g9FkxvHZABdbrF0M_jA_ByyIz_sGZ6rM&dib_tag=se&keywords=atoma+140&qid=1731375349&sprefix=atoma+140,aps,219&sr=8-1


For stones I say stick with splash and go. The Shapton varieties are excellent here. Uptown Cutlery is running a sale for 20% off using code EARLYBIRD at checkout. I just checked and it is active so I'm going to lean in on that for some recommendations but of course there are good and different options.

Shapton Pro (Kuromaku) 320 ($65) and 2000 ($75) would make an excellent combo. If he can only swing one right now, go 2k.
https://uptowncutlery.com/collections/sharpening-supplies?page=2&sort_by=price-ascending

Shapton Glass 500 is another outstanding choice and a stone I've used a lot. This would be high on my list of "one stone" options. Sure, not as refined an edge as we often like but absolutely serviceable with a stone that provides a lot of versatility.

Back to Uptown and the discount... Any of these knives would be solid options:
https://uptowncutlery.com/products/tsunehisa-210mm-gyuto-swedish-tsuchime

https://uptowncutlery.com/products/tsunehisa-440c-210mm-gyuto-damascus-tsuchime

https://uptowncutlery.com/products/kikumori-nihonko-210mm-gyuto?variant=37019947729049

The Nihonko is not stainless but their SK steel variant is pretty resilient and not too hard to contend with.

These are just considerations on top of what has already been recommended and along with other great options out there. Like I said, I just went with the discount code approach.

 

[Dan-]

A brick and some sandpaper? Son, when I was your age I got a piece of antler and a flint and got told “git er dun” and I done did. And look at me now! I gots delusions that anyone is going to sharpen anything! Much less strop, whatever that is.

 

[sansho]

A brick and some sandpaper? Son, when I was your age I got a piece of antler and a flint and got told “git er dun” and I done did. And look at me now! I gots delusions that anyone is going to sharpen anything! Much less strop, whatever that is.

i always 1µ strop between touchups on stones because it's faster and easier (for me, anyway). it's what i recommend to my less-knifey friends, and they seem to agree that it's helpful.

also, what's your point, and what's with the assumptions and old-timey schtick?

Put the budget for the strop toward the knives or stones. No “normy” is going to use a strop on a kitchen knife.

besides, i'd say stropping's way more accessible to a normie than stones are. stropping takes 0 skill and doesn't need any lube. (there's a set up for a joke in there somewhere...)

one of my friends maintains his only kitchen knife (SG2) with stropping because he can't figure out how to sharpen on his stones. really, he probably has no time to practice. he strops on diamond-loaded leather until that stops working and then takes it to bernal a few times a year to have them sharpen it.

i do think that the better you are with stones, the less useful stropping becomes. i've also seen jon of jki say that it covers up sharpening mistakes, and that's true, but if someone isn't inclined to get really good at sharpening, then i say anything that gets the knife sharper is good.

 

[rickbern]

I think this little MAC nakiri is better than a petty for many people, and the shape is very easy for a beginner at sharpening. I really think this is a great normie knife

https://cutleryandmore.com/products/mac-nakiri-knife-8103

 

[mc2442]

Personally I strop on SP 1000 or 2000, edge leading. Very quick and easy and you don’t need extra gear.

 

[sanmateo]

I've found leevalley in Canada to usually have the best price on shapton stuff, even without a coupon. Usually free shipping to US and Canada (over some minimum purchase)

I also have a sharpmaker, and I agree that it's good for maintaining an edge, but attempting to reprofile or thin might cause one to give up completely.

 

[sansho]

I've found leevalley in Canada to usually have the best price on shapton stuff, even without a coupon. Usually free shipping to US and Canada (over some minimum purchase)

I also have a sharpmaker, and I agree that it's good for maintaining an edge, but attempting to reprofile or thin might cause one to give up completely.

i'll check it out, thanks. i actually have a gift card to there from a long time ago that i forgot about...

 

[Blademaster]

Minimalist setup.

Knives: Fuji Cutlery Reigetsu/Narihira (Molybdenum Vanadium steel/AUS 8, still related with Tojiro), Tojiro (Basic or Classic).
Stone (choose one): King 300, King Neo 800, Shapton Rockstar 500, Shapton Pro 1K.

 

[mengwong]

for regular maintenance?

Zwilling 'v-edge'

I’m seeing a very attractive price on my local Amazon which sources from Amazon JP.

 

[sansho]

ended up going with a mac pro chef and petty, some shapton rockstars, and an inexpensive strop heavily pre-loaded with abrasive:

• mth-80 https://cutleryandmore.com/products/mac-professional-mth80-chefs-knife-8060
• pkf-60 https://cutleryandmore.com/products/mac-professional-utility-knife-8057
• SR500 & SR3000 https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/stones/116607-shapton-rockstar-stones
• cheefarcut strop https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/cheefarcuut-diamond-leather-strop-review-–-best-of-2025.75009/

the knives were $208 after 15% off coupon from signing up for their mailing list
the stones were $100. it would have been slightly cheaper from MTC, but i had a lee valley gift card to use up.
the strop was free (requested a sample for review).

so $308 for a mostly complete setup. i guess he still needs a way to flatten the stones at some point.

I've found leevalley in Canada to usually have the best price on shapton stuff, even without a coupon. Usually free shipping to US and Canada (over some minimum purchase)

maybe they changed policy, but if you order on the CA site, as soon as you put in a US shipping address, it kicks you out into the US site, and you pay the USD pricing.

 

[sanmateo]

maybe they changed policy, but if you order on the CA site, as soon as you put in a US shipping address, it kicks you out into the US site, and you pay the USD pricing.

that's too bad. And I was referring to USD site/prices, but they've increased since I last looked several months ago. The last time I bought one from them (last year) I paid $43 for a 320grit Shapton Glass (before Rockstar came out).

 

[sansho]

at any rate, lee valley is def one of the cheaper places for shapton and worth considering when shopping around. for just those two stones, mtc would have been $15–20 cheaper, but i think that included a 10% off coupon.