Recommend a beginner stone.

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Benuser said:
Sounds like serious abuse to me. You will need to thin and build new edges. This is no simple daily maintenance.

Soft stainless shouldn't be polished. It just leads to edge instability because of the carbides breaking out of the soft matrix. Better keep them rough. I use a Naniwa Pro 400 with them. Zwilling and Wüsthof get an 800-2k deburring, others the green side of a ScotchBrite pad. No refinement here.
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hmm even with only 2 uses?
 
You could always take photos so it's easier to tell :)

I started with the soaker set Beston 500 Bester 1200 Suehiro Rika 5000. So that Beston was my first stone in that lower grit range. Have since gotten a 220 grit and some 400 grit stones and yes the 220 grit gets used regularly on other people's thick stainless. Don't have the time or patience to grind away on a medium stone for thick edges these days
 
JaVa said:
I meant Gesshin.

I don't know about Sigma power stones, but the Select II takes about 10-15 min soaking. I store mine permasoaked in two small plastic food containers from Ikea.
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The Sigma Power 400 is nearly splash and go. The 1000 Soft is 10-15 min soak. 6k is splash and go :)
 
Haibane said:
https://imgur.com/gallery/Q9JPQ I don't know if these shots/angles are helpful. Felt the urge to clean the knife after taking photos lol.
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You will need to do something about the full fingerguard bolster eventually. See the lack of bevel towards the heel as well as where it thickens obviously. Without adjusting for these with repeated usage and sharpening you'll develop a slight hole in the edge because the end will be a low spot. Medium grit stone like the 1k isn't going to do a thing for that - maybe low low low grit sandpaper or diamond files
 
Foody, By something to the bolster... Any recommendations? I'm just trying to learn how to sharpen on this guy until I can get a better knife. So I may have to follow this up with the Gesshin 220.
 
Haibane said:
I went with chefs knifes to go for this order.
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So let me get this straight. Jon helped you via email and then you made your purchase from a man who some would describe as Lord Voldemort? Considering your previous experience with forum vendors I find the irony in this scenario hilarious.
 
@ Rick, There does indeed seem to be some irony, but let's play nice:cool2:.


Reminds me of my first foray into knives, stones, etc. I ordered a G Ginga from Jon as 1st Jknife and the Bestor 500, 1.2K and Suehiro 5K from Togo. Only sharpening experience was DMT plates for hunting knives and pull thru sharpeners for myriad kitchen knives. After a couple weeks I was getting no-where fast with the mostly German knives. Called Mark to ask about what I was doing wrong. Nothing. I should use them until I learned how. Called Jon to order the Gesshin soakers to replace the "non-working" stones. He asked about what I had been using, walked me through how to best use them (first time I heard of perma-soaking), praised the Bestor set and discouraged me from buying new stones until I was more familiar with what I already had.

I can appreciate not wanting to buy into the vendor / maker thing, though in this case I don't think the concern is warranted. Moreover Togo is probably the worst example of vendor / maker in the business with the many "exclusives" that are primarily knock offs of other products.

To the Bestor, even after some use I still hated (and still do) the 500. Liked the 1.2K and frequently paired Suehiro a lot. Amazon has them. Did buy the Gesshin soakers and preferred them.

Good luck and hope to see you here often.
 
Yeah I decided I wasn't going to say anything, but then you guys did. It makes me sad enough I kinda want to reroute my upcoming JNS purchase to JKI, but then that's not really fair to Maksim, is it? As he answered some questions for me.

Oh for a trust fund...
 
daveb said:
... ordered ... the Bestor 500, 1.2K and Suehiro 5K....
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The "Dave Martell's Core Set of Sharpening Stones" from back in the day. (As a lurker) I remember Dave talking about the virtues and tradeoffs, the research he'd done, and why he felt this set of stones was the best value out there.
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
The "Dave Martell's Core Set of Sharpening Stones" from back in the day. (As a lurker) I remember Dave talking about the virtues and tradeoffs, the research he'd done, and why he felt this set of stones was the best value out there.
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Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.
 
DanHumphrey said:
Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.
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Search the site for the earlier discussion / Dave M's description. (I assume it's still here.) It will be from 2012-2013 era IIRC.

Only you can decide for you. (What do you have and what don't you like about them?) I think Jon's Gesshin soaking set came out subsequently and was preferred (on average), but cost more.... Again, it's up to you.
 
To answer the questions together, my other stones, currently, are Jon's diamond 1k/ 6k pair, Thai Binsui, Khao Men, 140 & 400 Atomas, and a Hideriyama from Jon. And I literally just ordered, earlier this evening, the JNS 1k/ synthetic red aoto.

What don't I like about them? There's nothing I really "don't like" about them. The JKI diamond stones, alone (or with a strip of denim), will put a plenty good edge on a kitchen knife. I have never, though, been able to do something like treetop arm hair, and I've never tried honing a razor though that would be fun eventually. Really I just want enough experience to do justice to my Bloodroots, when my number comes up in like another year. And, as nice as the JKI diamond stones are, I think they work too quickly to teach me anything.
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
Search the site for the earlier discussion / Dave M's description. (I assume it's still here.) ....
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Never assume. I found a book mark and get an invalid link error. I then searched and (1) found a post that links to the thread, but following that link gets the same error. So I guess it's gone. And, (2) found...:

DanHumphrey said:
In a couple of weeks I want to upgrade my stones; currently I have a King 1000/3000 combo that's on the small side. The options I'm considering are:

  1. $135 - Gesshin 1000/6000 combo
  2. $210 - Gesshin set (400, 2000, 6000s)
  3. ~$135 - "holy trinity" (Beston 500, Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000)

As popular as I know that last option is, they seem to be most available from CKTG or Etsy (where the 500 is OOS), while the Gesshins are readily available. Are the Gesshins that much better, or go with the cheaper ones? Are the 400/500 enough to do thinning, or would I need something even coarser for that?

I know both options have lots of recommendations around here, but I hadn't seen a direct comparison, so I wanted to see what the advice was. I expect to be sharpening blue, white, and R2, for whatever difference that makes.
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Dude, you've been down this path before! :)
 
Hey guys so are the Ikea wood boards worth using over a standard poly type?
 
DanHumphrey said:
Is it worth getting these even if you already have other great stones? They've been bugging me, of late.
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Grossly oversimplified but there are two kinds of sharpeners. Those that enjoy, find relaxing, interesting sharpening different knives with different stones. Those that inevitably end up with a little of everything including Jnats.

And those that take the wham bam thank you mam approach. Get it sharp, get it done.

If you consider yourself in the first group then by all mean pick up the Bestor 1.2 and the Suehiro 5K. Compare for yourself. Or reserve the funds for additional Jnats. If you're in the 2nd group then don't sweat it - what you have works. Next.
 
daveb said:
Grossly oversimplified but there are two kinds of sharpeners. Those that enjoy, find relaxing, interesting sharpening different knives with different stones. Those that inevitably end up with a little of everything including Jnats.

And those that take the wham bam thank you mam approach. Get it sharp, get it done.

If you consider yourself in the first group then by all mean pick up the Bestor 1.2 and the Suehiro 5K. Compare for yourself. Or reserve the funds for additional Jnats. If you're in the 2nd group then don't sweat it - what you have works. Next.
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Maybe it is oversimplified but I thought it was a damn fine response and sums up this sharpening disease nicely. :doublethumbsup:
 
Haibane said:
Hey guys so are the Ikea wood boards worth using over a standard poly type?
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No first hand experience, but I just searched what they have on their website. (BTW- they call them "chopping boards", not "cutting boards", and that caused me some confusion at first.)

Most of them look small. The wood ones all appear to be edge-grain in the photos (even the ones called butcher block.) If you got one of them large enough* for your needs, they seem as if they'd hold up as well or better than the typical poly ones I've seen. Seems like they'd be equal, or a little better, on your edges too. That said they aren't the end-grain usually recommended or rubber which is usually recommended as a wood substitute.

*American's Test Kitchen says 15" x 20" is the minimum useful size. I tend to agree, but those are too big and too heavy for many cooks and many kitchens.
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
No first-hand experience, but I just searched what they have on their website. (BTW- they call them "chopping boards", not "cutting boards", and that caused me some confusion at first.)

Most of them look small. The wood ones all appear to be edge-grain in the photos (even the ones called butcher block.) If you got one of them large enough* for your needs, they seem as if they'd hold up as well or better than the typical poly ones I've seen. Seems like they'd be equal, or a little better, on your edges too. That said they aren't the end-grain usually recommended or rubber which is usually recommended as a wood substitute.

*American's Test Kitchen says 15" x 20" is the minimum useful size. I tend to agree, but those are too big and too heavy for many cooks and many kitchens.
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Thanks, Dave. I will have to look into one. It seems in the meantime, I have to look into a coarse stone. There doesn;t seem to be enough to put a burr on my Western with this medium. I'm still figuring it out though
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
Never assume. I found a book mark and get an invalid link error. I then searched and (1) found a post that links to the thread, but following that link gets the same error. So I guess it's gone. And, (2) found...:



Dude, you've been down this path before! :)
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Ha! Yes, I've been down this path (and others) before, but didn't remember that. So thanks for that!

Dave, I don't sharpen as much as I'd like to, but I'd like to get good at it. Is there anything to developing skills with different stones, or finding ones that work best for you? Or is it more like just keep practicing with what you have, good or bad, and you'll develop the skills?
 
DanHumphrey said:
Ha! Yes, I've been down this path (and others) before, but didn't remember that. So thanks for that!
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(I was amused and teasing a little. I am sorry I couldn't find Dave Martell's own words, but I guess that piece of history is gone.)

DanHumphrey said:
Dave, I don't sharpen as much as I'd like to, but I'd like to get good at it. Is there anything to developing skills with different stones, or finding ones that work best for you? Or is it more like just keep practicing with what you have, good or bad, and you'll develop the skills?
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I'm more in your boat than not and not really someone to answer this. (I'm following these threads due to my own search for sharpening enlightenment and just chipping in with the bits & pieces I know / remember to try and be helpful.) That said....

I'm much more comfortable with woodworking tools than knifes. (Very different profiles, different bevel angles, and somewhat different skills / techniques.) I think being mindful of what you are trying to accomplish, carefully evaluating what you do accomplish, and practicing are the keys. For me, the key bit of advice to help me with my mental block was an instructor (teaching handsaw sharpening) saying, "A poorly sharpened saw is better than a dull saw. Just do it, and plan to make it better the next time you sharpen it."

All that said, if you find the perfect stone set that solves all problems and magically fixes skill deficiencies, please post! I'm sure I'll be here still hoping for the "magic bullet".
 
Hey, guys so... back on topic... Any suggestions for a good coarse stone? I'm really enjoying the Bester, but from discussions on here and experience, I think I need a coarse stone for my Chef Knife. Any suggestions? I'm not really sure what grit to go for or brand.
 
My fav? JNS 300 - a splash and go. Slight preference for it over JKI 400 - a soaker. These two are leagues ahead of Bestor 500, to me. Could never get the water right on the 500, always too dry or too wet.
 
daveb said:
My fav? JNS 300 - a splash and go. Slight preference for it over JKI 400 - a soaker. These two are leagues ahead of Bestor 500, to me. Could never get the water right on the 500, always too dry or too wet.
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Any suggestions for where you could get one?
 
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