Recommend a stainless KS-profile gyuto

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spaceconvoy

spaceconvoy

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... with good distal taper.

I'm loving my latest KS-style Doi gyuto, but feeling the semi-annual urge to go fully stainless. The Swedish steel Masamoto would seem like the obvious choice, but I've read it's very disappointing compared to the classic white steel KS. I'm looking for:

- Stainless or semi-stainless, monosteel preferred but sanmai is fine. Doesn't need to be fancy, a basic moly steel would be fine
- 240-250 long, 48-50 tall, give or take a mm or two
- middleweight with a slightly convex grind would be ideal, 170g min, 200g max
- wa handle (obviously) but otherwise unimportant since I'll almost certainly rehandle it
- plain kasumi / migaki finish, no fugly nashiji or kurouchi patterns. Could be damascus if not super expensive
- nice distal taper all the way down the blade, this seems to be the most difficult criteria to find
- smooth continuous curve low profile with no sanjo-style gut, as close to a KS profile as possible. I don't mind if the spine has some forehead and the tip isn't super pointy, as long as the edge profile is good
- ideally under $400 but I can flex for something nice, let's say $600 max

Maybe I'm getting more picky discerning, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Is the Swedish Masamoto not as bad as I've heard? Maybe I need to bite the bullet and contact Shihan for a custom.
 
I would say DIY it or ask knife maker do it for you.

I have the CAD file of KS gyuto that you can try to cut it out of cpm154 or rwl34 (Best kitchen knife stainless material from my personal point of view, sg2 could be also good, but it is expensive). Grind and polish it. Heat treatment can be done with bos or paul.

Swedish Masamoto is expensive and not with that high carbon content steel, which I do not suggest.
 
spaceconvoy said:
... with good distal taper.

I'm loving my latest KS-style Doi gyuto, but feeling the semi-annual urge to go fully stainless. The Swedish steel Masamoto would seem like the obvious choice, but I've read it's very disappointing compared to the classic white steel KS. I'm looking for:

- Stainless or semi-stainless, monosteel preferred but sanmai is fine. Doesn't need to be fancy, a basic moly steel would be fine
- 240-250 long, 48-50 tall, give or take a mm or two
- middleweight with a slightly convex grind would be ideal, 170g min, 200g max
- wa handle (obviously) but otherwise unimportant since I'll almost certainly rehandle it
- plain kasumi / migaki finish, no fugly nashiji or kurouchi patterns. Could be damascus if not super expensive
- nice distal taper all the way down the blade, this seems to be the most difficult criteria to find
- smooth continuous curve low profile with no sanjo-style gut, as close to a KS profile as possible. I don't mind if the spine has some forehead and the tip isn't super pointy, as long as the edge profile is good
- ideally under $400 but I can flex for something nice, let's say $600 max

Maybe I'm getting more picky discerning, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Is the Swedish Masamoto not as bad as I've heard? Maybe I need to bite the bullet and contact Shihan for a custom.
Click to expand...
Shihan was going to be my recommendation. I agree that finding what you're looking for with the distal taper you want will be a challenge. I was going to recommend a Konosuke GS+, which is basically a KS-clone. I haven't tried one, but it seems to hit some (most?) of your boxes (height, weight, semi-stainless) except for distal taper. One thing--a hallmark of the KS profile is that it has a decent flat spot. Your specs wanted a "smooth continuous curve"--this would be more akin to Tanaka than KS. Maybe what you're after is a pointy, not-tall, stretched out Tanaka type profile? :) Maybe Sukenari?
 
I’d say yes, this is a specific enough set of criteria that custom might be your best bet. The only stainless ones I can think of are lasers - I love my Kashima but it’s sort of a special purpose knife and doesn’t fit your requirements. The Mizuno Blue 1 is an excellent blade and the one I’d recommend if it weren’t for the stainless, so given that and the price of the Mizuno, having one made makes sense.
 
McMan said:
Shihan was going to be my recommendation. I agree that finding what you're looking for with the distal taper you want will be a challenge. I was going to recommend a Konosuke GS+, which is basically a KS-clone. I haven't tried one, but it seems to hit some (most?) of your boxes (height, weight, semi-stainless) except for distal taper. One thing--a hallmark of the KS profile is that it has a decent flat spot. Your specs wanted a "smooth continuous curve"--this would be more akin to Tanaka than KS. Maybe what you're after is a pointy, not-tall, stretched out Tanaka type profile? :) Maybe Sukenari?
Click to expand...

Had a GS+ togatta for a while and it was a nice knife, but very light. Small flat spot, then continuous curve. Also, while thin at the edge, when I started buying more Japanese knives and comparing, I found it could have been a bit thinner behind the edge, which was surprising for a laser. Also had a Sukenari R2 for a while, very KS like profile with a bit more flat than the GS+, almost 1/3 of the profile. Very little distal taper until you get near the tip though, although the tip was nice. Excellent no nonsense knife. Problem is it’s hard to find the hairline finish version in stock sometimes, only the damascus. I agree with McMan here. If I had the money, I’d get the Shi.han. I have one in A2 that I love with a bit of flat and a nice gentle curve to the tip. I want another Shi.han, but I keep impulse buying other knives to try 😅. I’m sure his AEB-L is great and he can do a KS profile custom in your weight range.
 
I had one of the stainless KS' but was very disappointed, had a lot more belly than the carbon one, fit and finish was sloppy, like it was made by someone one else, wasnt the same knife in a different steel.
 
Chicagohawkie said:
Shibata kashima R2 Stainless
Click to expand...

is a super laser. Same with GS+. And I was going to say the same about the Kohetsu HAP40 Togatta I just picked up - but it has unexpectedly good food release and convexity! Still quite light, and I don’t know how much of that is a product of the edge being buffed, but we’ll see. Initial reaction is a pleasant surprise
 
McMan said:
One thing--a hallmark of the KS profile is that it has a decent flat spot. Your specs wanted a "smooth continuous curve"--this would be more akin to Tanaka than KS. Maybe what you're after is a pointy, not-tall, stretched out Tanaka type profile? :) Maybe Sukenari?
Click to expand...
You're right, I'm thinking more of my KS-style Doi than the original Masamoto. I don't do any straight up-and-down chopping and pure flat spots have always felt dead and awkward to me. At the same time I love a low tip and nearly-flat curve. If someone could take the CCK edge profile and extend it into a 240 gyuto that would be ideal. I should get over my pride and look at K-tip gyutos, even though they seem so noobish
 
ljknb9264 said:
I would say DIY it or ask knife maker do it for you.

I have the CAD file of KS gyuto that you can try to cut it out of cpm154 or rwl34 (Best kitchen knife stainless material from my personal point of view, sg2 could be also good, but it is expensive). Grind and polish it. Heat treatment can be done with bos or paul.

Swedish Masamoto is expensive and not with that high carbon content steel, which I do not suggest.
Click to expand...
That's way too much work for me and my skillset, but I have thought about buying a 270mm, cutting it down and reprofiling the spine
 
kpham12 said:
while thin at the edge, when I started buying more Japanese knives and comparing, I found it could have been a bit thinner behind the edge, which was surprising for a laser.
Click to expand...
No surprise. All Sakai lasers I’ve tried could have been a bit thinner behind the edge. It’s not too difficult to thin them a little bit though.
 
If anyone's interested in closure, I'm going to try a 270 Sukenari. I noticed the Sukenari profiles flatten out as they get longer, and the edge of the 270 looks nearly identical to the 240 KS. Because they're respectively under- and over-sized, the Sukenari is only 10mm longer, and since the spine is higher wrt the handle, I'm hoping the added height doesn't feel dramatically different. Giving up on distal taper, which was more about having a less-forward balance, and going to try correcting that with a heavier handle. Now I just need to decide which steel.

D41860FA-A6F1-4451-BD64-89672980AA38.png
 
spaceconvoy said:
If anyone's interested in closure, I'm going to try a 270 Sukenari. I noticed the Sukenari profiles flatten out as they get longer, and the edge of the 270 looks nearly identical to the 240 KS. Because they're respectively under- and over-sized, the Sukenari is only 10mm longer, and since the spine is higher wrt the handle, I'm hoping the added height doesn't feel dramatically different. Giving up on distal taper, which was more about having a less-forward balance, and going to try correcting that with a heavier handle. Now I just need to decide which steel.

View attachment 104760
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Well you want stainless. So that leaves Ginsan and R2. You could go semi-stainless and get ZDP-189, HAP40 or YXR7. I'd probably get R2 or Ginsan. Or ZDP 😎
 
M1k3 said:
Well you want stainless. So that leaves Ginsan and R2. You could go semi-stainless and get ZDP-189, HAP40 or YXR7. I'd probably get R2 or Ginsan. Or ZDP 😎
Click to expand...
I wouldn't mind semi-stainless, but I'll probably go with ginsan because of the huge price difference. Part of a pre-new-years-resolution to focus more on cooking and less on chasing knife perfection.

Also don't want to make my other knives look too lacking in comparison. The hardest knife I own is 62-63, and never tried anything higher. How much of a difference do you notice? Or is it one of those things that only matters once you've gotten used to it.

labor of love said:
Marko A2 KS profile...see if you can track down something like this
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/marko-tskourkan-ks-profile-lefty-gyuto.46211/
Click to expand...
That's sexy enough to make me forget everything I said above, I'll keep an eye out but still need something to tide me over in the meantime.

TSF415 said:
How about one of these? Has anyone tried one? I understand it’s not quite a ks but looks similar to the Sukenari. Guessing the grind would be great.

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...de-240mm-to-300mm-3-sizes?variant=33657949454
Click to expand...
I remember when this used to be the hot knife to have. Seems too laserish for my taste, judging by the weight.
 
Marko works with aelb too. I like shihan a lot but asking a maker to match a profile like the KS is always a gamble. Although I’d be quite interested to see what happens if you go that route.
 
One last update. I got the cheaper non-forged 270mm ginsan from JCK, and I'm glad I did. The balance is perfect and I wouldn't want it to be any heavier: 258 x 52mm and 186g. The handle is the worst part, very cheap-feeling lightweight wood and horn that seems like it was finished under 800 grit, very similar to the handle on my CKC Mazaki kurouchi.

As far as being KS-profile-esque, it's close but no cigar. Compared to my Doi KS-style, the first 3/4s from the heel is flatter so the tip sits lower overall, but the curvature in the last 1/4 forces you to raise the knife to a higher angle for full board contact. The lack of flat spot behind the tip makes dicing onions annoying.

I ended up regrinding it and now it's closer to what I want (btw, I take back what I said in the ultra coarse stone thread about not needing the Pro 120). It was close enough to the right shape not to be a terrible amount of work, plus I like modifying my stuff. It's a good knife overall and I'll like it a lot more once I rehandle it.
 
I never thought of it until it got said here but Sukenari is pretty close for something that doesn’t directly invoke the KS name. I really like the profile and grind on my YXR7 210mm and suspect that part of my issue with them before was that their k-tip profile isn’t for me.
 
If going Sukenari, go with a 270mm, as they're actually 260mm. Will feel more like a KS. The 240mm is short at 230mm.

Sukenari is a bit more beefy than a KS. Most here would want to thin them ootb. I use them (I have 2) for specific tasks.
 
spaceconvoy said:
One last update. I got the cheaper non-forged 270mm ginsan from JCK, and I'm glad I did. The balance is perfect and I wouldn't want it to be any heavier: 258 x 52mm and 186g. The handle is the worst part, very cheap-feeling lightweight wood and horn that seems like it was finished under 800 grit, very similar to the handle on my CKC Mazaki kurouchi.

As far as being KS-profile-esque, it's close but no cigar. Compared to my Doi KS-style, the first 3/4s from the heel is flatter so the tip sits lower overall, but the curvature in the last 1/4 forces you to raise the knife to a higher angle for full board contact. The lack of flat spot behind the tip makes dicing onions annoying.

I ended up regrinding it and now it's closer to what I want (btw, I take back what I said in the ultra coarse stone thread about not needing the Pro 120). It was close enough to the right shape not to be a terrible amount of work, plus I like modifying my stuff. It's a good knife overall and I'll like it a lot more once I rehandle it.
Click to expand...

Where’s the balance point on the 270mm Ginsan?
 
applepieforbreakfast said:
Where’s the balance point on the 270mm Ginsan?
Click to expand...
I'm not the best person to ask since I ground the tip down by 5mm, thinned off close to 10g, and replaced the handle with a heavier wood. Even after all that, the balance point is still 45mm forward of the heel. The lack of distal taper makes it especially forward balanced.
 
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