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10160

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LOCATION
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in
Santoku

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western, preferably with wood of some kind. (see messermeister oliva elite)

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
standard santoku, around 7 inch

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
yes

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
200



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
primarily home but possibly both

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
veggie prep, general prep


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Nice western handle, extremely sharp, wont chip easily

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?]
i lean towards the heavy side but only because i mainly have used those. i am willing to learn a lighter knife if needed.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
i dont mind learning how to sharpen it as long as i CAN learn (i.e. i dont need to be a master sharpener to do it right). i dont care how long it takes. Amazingly sharp and cuts through the toughest veggies like paper

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
long



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) im going to buy either bamboo or wood (tell me which)?

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) yes


Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) i have a 1k grit shapton whetstone but willing to buy more if needed. i also have many different diamond strop compounds
 

10160

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the 3 knives i am considering are the miyabi mizu sg2 santoku, the takamura sg2 santoku, and the Tojiro DP santoku. Not sure on the tojiro because its vg10 which has mixed opinions compared to sg2 which seems to have more universal praise and seems to be a more sharp steel. The takamura might be too light for my taste, i dont know yet, while the miyabi is sexy but im not a fan of the handle. also i have heard the grind isnt as good as the taka and others.
 

adam92

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Try Takamura R2, yes the handle is small & light compare to miyabi, but you won't be disappoint by the performance, will shock you out.
 

10160

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Try Takamura R2, yes the handle is small & light compare to miyabi, but you won't be disappoint by the performance, will shock you out.
the 2 things im woried about with the taka-
1. the insanely light weight will be something i cant get used to and will dislike. i come from using heavy german knives more than double its weight
2. some people have reported problems with microchipping and chipping in general.

also, no hammered finish is a con. that miyabi mizu hammered finish is beyond gorgeous
 

adam92

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the 2 things im woried about with the taka-
1. the insanely light weight will be something i cant get used to and will dislike. i come from using heavy german knives more than double its weight
2. some people have reported problems with microchipping and chipping in general.

also, no hammered finish is a con. that miyabi mizu hammered finish is beyond gorgeous
I used to use german knives as well.

For the microchipping problem, all you need to do is put a micro bevel on the knife. I have same problem when OOTB.

Takamura cut thought everything liked a dream.

Have you try taka before??
 

10160

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I used to use german knives as well.

For the microchipping problem, all you need to do is put a micro bevel on the knife. I have same problem when OOTB.

Takamura cut thought everything liked a dream.

Have you try taka before??
how do you put a micro bevel on it? I know absolutely nothing about all this.
i did use a taka gyuto for a day, the super light weight really threw me off and i felt like it was too delicate
 

adam92

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how do you put a micro bevel on it? I know absolutely nothing about all this.
i did use a taka gyuto for a day, the super light weight really threw me off and i felt like it was too delicate
Check this out.
 

adam92

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i really dont understand this. take a high grit stone (which i dont even have) then re sharpen it at a higher angle??
Not necessarily have a high grit, depand what you want to cut. Is kind of like stropping instead of resharpen, use the search tools you'll be surprised how much information have in this forum! Is awesome forum.
 

tostadas

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Your criteria is kinda limiting. Heavy, western handled, stainless santoku, with good edge retention, and "sharp" for under $200. I'm not even sure the Miyabi or Tojiro you mentioned will fit that criteria.
 

10160

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Not necessarily have a high grit, depand what you want to cut. Is kind of like stropping instead of resharpen, use the search tools you'll be surprised how much information have in this forum! Is awesome forum.
he said to make a burr on both sides.... that is sharpening not stropping.. this is so confusing. makes me regret moving away from german knives
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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You shouldn’t keep putting Takamura in you list when you don’t like it. These 2 threads basically show that you don’t like the Takamura in your mind and why don’t you listen to yourself and buy the Miyabi?
 

10160

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You shouldn’t keep putting Takamura in you list when you don’t like it. These 2 threads basically show that you don’t like the Takamura in your mind and why don’t you listen to yourself and buy the Miyabi?
because if i can get used to the light weight of the taka, and if the chipping issues are apparent on both, then it could be a good decision. the quality of the product has everything going for it.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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because if i can get used to the light weight of the taka, and if the chipping issues are apparent on both, then it could be a good decision. the quality of the product has everything going for it.
You have used a Takamura for day, no? Who the else can help you decide if you can get used it or not other than yourself?
Delicate is a relative term and a Takamura is indeed very delicate even in Japanese knife world, especially compared to a Miyabi. A microbevel won’t change that.
 

10160

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You have used a Takamura for day, no? Who the else can help you decide if you can get used it or not other than yourself?
Delicate is a relative term and a Takamura is indeed very delicate even in Japanese knife world, especially compared to a Miyabi. A microbevel won’t change that.
i dont even know how to make a microbevel so there's that. is that something you need to do on the miyabi too, or...?
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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i dont even know how to make a microbevel so there's that. is that something you need to do on the miyabi too, or...?
It really depends on how you use them. This is what happened to a Shun premier and it surely can happen to Miyabi. A lot less likely for a Zwilling/Wusthof.

37A4CA18-0052-43AD-9F34-CFD1E31FBE6D.jpeg
 

10160

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It really depends on how you use them. This is what happened to a Shun premier and it surely can happen to Miyabi. A lot less likely for a Zwilling/Wusthof.

View attachment 142278
so.. how are you supposed to use them? Its seeming more and more like theres crucial information about not breaking your new 150$ knife that nobody tells you
 

tostadas

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so.. how are you supposed to use them? Its seeming more and more like theres crucial information about not breaking your new 150$ knife that nobody tells you
Don't try to use them to cut bones, frozen stuff, open cans, dig for gold, etc. Common sense is not that common.
 

10160

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Don't try to use them to cut bones, frozen stuff, open cans, dig for gold, etc. Common sense is not that common.
of course. what worries me is experience j knife users saying that they found micro chips in their edge after some time.. so im not sure if this thing is delicate af or if theres something you can do to prevent that??
 

tostadas

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of course. what worries me is experience j knife users saying that they found micro chips in their edge after some time.. so im not sure if this thing is delicate af or if theres something you can do to prevent that??
 

Infrared

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of course. what worries me is experience j knife users saying that they found micro chips in their edge after some time.. so im not sure if this thing is delicate af or if theres something you can do to prevent that??
Avoid lateral (sideways) movements and you should be good. They are not as delicate as some seem to think.

Even if you do get microchips, it will literally take 2-3 minutes on your Shapton 1k to grind them out.

Also, check this out if you want something a little heavier. It won't cut as well as a Takamura, but it will be tougher.

 

Jovidah

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Just thinking out loud here, but if you want something heavier, why go for a santoku? I was never a big santoku fan, but I always preferred the lighter ones. If you want something heavier personally I'd be more inclined to look at gyutos.

I'm inclined to second the advice given in the other thread that you should prioritize on mostly just dialing down your preferences. Doesn't have to be flashy. If you are sure you want something heavier the most sensible starting point is something with a more boring pakkawood handle. They tend to be a bit heavier than all the wa-handled knives.
 

Ochazuke

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Seriously dude, it’s easy to get overwhelmed by the info dump. Just pick whatever speaks to you and if you hate it you can always resell it and try again!

No amount of reading about all these differences will beat actual in-hand experience.

Why not get a cheaper option, and see if you can use it so hard that it does microchip? Then learn to sharpen out a microchip (which really isn’t hard at all). When all is said and done you’ll have a really intimate knowledge of what your knife can do AND have the basic skills to do minor fixings? When you move on to whatever your dream knife is, you won’t feel like you have to baby it.
 

LostHighway

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KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) im going to buy either bamboo or wood (tell me which)?
Do not buy a bamboo cutting board! Bamboo is probably the worst choice for a cutting board aside from the total insanity of glass, metal, ceramic, or stone. Wood is fine, most people here will point you toward maple, cherry, or walnut but teak is probably adequate. Personally, I would avoid acacia (too hard). Keep in mind that wood boards are not dishwasher safe, nor should they be soaked in the sink. Hasagawa and Hi-Soft boards are great choices IMO but they are not inexpensive. If cost is a major issue polypropylene or polyethylene board aren't as completely horrible as they are sometimes made out to be - I'd rather use the plastic boards than bamboo.
 
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Grayswandir

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My advice is to go for something sharp and pointy. Seriously, how much do you want to spend? (Never mind, I read everything).

Any reason for the style, and wanting a western handle?
 

esoo

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of course. what worries me is experience j knife users saying that they found micro chips in their edge after some time.. so im not sure if this thing is delicate af or if theres something you can do to prevent that??
They are not delicate AF. But if you do something stupid, you'll get rewarded with a chip.

Hand wash. Don't go though bones or frozen food. Cut straight and don't twist while in product. Don't put the knife into the board with a lot of force and twist.

I watched my Miyabi Birchwood used to spatchcock a chicken - it came out fine.

For the knives you are listing, you should not have a problem (unless you're stupid with it). There are knives much thinner at the edge that you have to have care with (for example Yoshikane SKD, Shibata Kotetsu anything). These lines of knives are so thin atthe edge that the will flex - great for going through vegetables, but you can chip them.
 

Delat

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Any knife with decent steel can be made “Amazingly sharp”. What you’re missing is that the actual edge sharpness isn’t what determines how easily a knife “goes through vegetables like paper”. What determines cutting performance or feel is really the geometry of the knife aka the grind, plus what people are calling “thinness behind the edge”.

I sharpen all my knives to the same level of sharpness, and yet some (Yoshikane, Kurosaki) feel crazy “sharp” on food, sliding through effortlessly while others require more force to cut through the same thing. The reason for the difference is the grind and the thinness behind the edge.

Generally the lighter and thinner the overall knife, the better it will cut through food if that’s the experience you’re looking for. The tradeoff is that the lighter knives will be more delicate. The knives at the extreme end of that spectrum are called lasers, and Takamura falls into that category. Many people prefer a heavier knife that feels more solid with a blade-heavy balance, knives we call midweights, heavyweights, or workhorses. But they realize those knives aren’t going to cut like lasers.

You keep describing a heavyweight laser, which is like ordering spicy but mild curry, which is why you’re not getting the recommendation or endorsement you’re looking for.
 

tostadas

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Another thought is to get a Chinese cleaver to hit some of your key points. CCK 1912 is stainless, super thin, weighs about the same as a heavyweight gyuto, easily sharpened to a sharp edge, and the steel is more forgiving than some of the harder Japanese steels. On the negative side for you, it doesnt have a western handle, uses relatively simple steel, and doesnt look flashy. Also isnt a santoku.
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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of course. what worries me is experience j knife users saying that they found micro chips in their edge after some time.. so im not sure if this thing is delicate af or if theres something you can do to prevent that??
If you don't cut super hard stuff like bones, frozen meats, or metals as mentioned above, the cutting board would be the hardest thing you cut frequently. That's why the choice of cutting board is very important here. A softer cutting surface not only reduces microchips but also prolong the edge retention. The difference between a bamboo and a Hasegawa FSR/FRK cutting boards could be day-and-night. A cheaper option is Japanese Hinoki which is super edge friendly. Hasegawa FSR/FRK is not that expensive though considering you won't buy a lot boards like with knives. I have friends who don't have nice knife but use Hasegawa after they tried mine.
 

da_mich*

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I can recommend you a Robert Herder knife from Solingen/Germany. They have a Santoku too. It´s the last manufacturer in germany who has the "Solinger Dünnschliff" grind. This knives are "blaugepließtet". This high polish process made carbon steel very rust resistant. The steel changes only the color.
You can buy it in stainless version too, but i recommend you the carbon version.

Pro:
-Very thin grind
-Very easy to resharpen -> I resharpen my Herder knife since ofer a year with a honing rod only. 1 or 2 strokes per side and its a rasor
-Very sharp
Con:
-Expensive
-Sensitive when used incorrectly

Sorry for my english

 
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