Reducing cleaver belly?

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loganrah

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Hi All,

I'm really interested in getting a Takeda cleaver but I don't like the amount of belly on them (everything else about them is perfect to me). Just wondering whether it wouod be possible to have the belly/curve reduced (by a professional using stones, my sharpening skills aren't that good yet) and if so, would there be any danger of damage or reduction in functionality doing something like that? The money is not a big issue but I wouldn't want to pay more than $200 or so for the regrind, at that point I figure it would be cheaper to find someone to make a custom.
(Obviously this idea also has the advantage of being able to fix any thinness issues at the same time)
Any advice or thoughts on this idea most appreciated.
 
of course this is possible, ive done it myself several times. depending on the knife, its belly and the grind, it could be alot of work tho and im not sure who offers such amount of work in your area. as much as i want a takeda myself, i dont think it would be worth the money. you should seriously consider a custom instead.
 
Just out of curiosity, how much belly is too much? Most Takedas that I have seen don't have that much. Some are dead flat, although those were probably for noodles, but looked just like a chukabocho
 
I wouldn't recommend buying a $600 Cleaver and then paying $200 to give it a flatter profile you might be upset that you spent $800 and still didn't achieve the results you were looking for. Buy a cheaper cleaver and use the additional money to buy some good stones. 300 grit Diamond Stone 1000 grit Whetstone (you can buy at korin knives). Then reprofile the cleaver yourself.
 
Just out of curiosity, how much belly is too much? Most Takedas that I have seen don't have that much. Some are dead flat, although those were probably for noodles, but looked just like a chukabocho

I think the noodle knife you are referring to is called DIM SUM
the knife is not sharp it's just like a dough cutter or board scraper
 
If money is no issue then why not custom order one from takeda?
 
I don't understand this obsession with flat, straight edges on cleavers? Are you cooking Chinese or just adapting the knife to some other cuisine? The fact that most real Chinese cleavers are never straight enough for you should tell you something.
 
Yeah but takeda cleavers can often have really curvy profiles. I wouldn't want the tallest part of the blade to be in the center of the profile if that makes sense. Rather, heel area or close to it. Just like gyuto.
 
I don't understand this obsession with flat, straight edges on cleavers? Are you cooking Chinese or just adapting the knife to some other cuisine? The fact that most real Chinese cleavers are never straight enough for you should tell you something.

Flatter profile is not an obsession it's just a preference .I have SUIEN vc Cleaver which I love ,but always wish that had less belly. I have Reprofiled it myself and like it much better than the way it came new. I just got a CCK 1103 a few days ago, in the pursuit of a flatter profile. The CCK is near perfect in my opinion for edge profile. I know they are made in Hong Kong not mainland China but isn't this a perfect representation of a proper traditional made CAI DAO ?. The Japanese are the ones who change the edge profile (more belly) on CHUKABOCHO .
A cleaver is made for choppin, not rocking.
 
I prefer a flatter edge for cleavers since it allows you to rapidly chop very finely without accordianing, rock chopping with a cleaver is noticeably slower and basically (to me at least) defeats the purpose of a cleaver, if I'm going to rock chop I may as well get a nice gyuto.

Given the responses above though it seems like people think that going custom would be the best route. Unfortunately it seems Takeda does not take custom orders from the email response I got. So a secondary question is: What custom knife makers would you recommend to make a Takeda style cleaver? Most important features in order of importance: Aogami super or equivalent quality steal, extremely thin, stainless cladding, good food release, kurouchi finish, reasonable turn around time (<6 months) would be appreciated as well.
 
Moritaka cleavers seem to be pretty flat. There might be some hanging out in bst actually.
Heiji could make you a custom. KU finish, both steels are nice, not sure how thin a heiji could be but he seems to be quite open to custom specs and measurements.
 
I prefer a flatter edge for cleavers since it allows you to rapidly chop very finely without accordianing, rock chopping with a cleaver is noticeably slower and basically (to me at least) defeats the purpose of a cleaver, if I'm going to rock chop I may as well get a nice gyuto.

I agree 100% .
furthermore, people who like more belly are not forced to use knives with a flatter profile . Nor should people who like a flatter edge profile be forced to use knives with too much belly for their personal preference.
when I chop through a bundle of Italian parsley or cilantro I use a straight up and down chopping motion with about 2 - 3 mm of forward movement. The results are excellent. If I do the same thing with a Cleaver that has too much belly the results are very disappointing.
 
In my part of the world, a bit of centered belly is often preferred and regarded as standard. The techniques for cutting accommodate that.

But there are a few places and styles that do flatter. I am not seeing a problem. I just recommend not asserting anything about "proper use".
 
China is a country rich with history and culture but things inevitably change over the years.
I bet if we did an archaeological dig in china and discovered a Chinese cleaver that Confucius owned,it would have a flat profile. for some reason over time some people started preferring more belly in their knife.

this is just a guess though.
 
...The CCK is near perfect in my opinion for edge profile. I know they are made in Hong Kong not mainland China but isn't this a perfect representation of a proper traditional made CAI DAO ?. The Japanese are the ones who change the edge profile (more belly) on CHUKABOCHO .


A cleaver is made for choppin, not rocking.


<IF THIS BLADE IS A ROCKIN' DONÄT COME A KNOCKIN'... LOL , it's been a late night here so my apologies for dull humour.

I agree with you 100% about the CCK being almost bloody perfect. And for the money, I say it is.
If I were the OP I would buy a 1102 and maybe put on a nice (read: beautiful) handle and call it a day. granted it's not s.s. clad nor kurouchi, but once you get your patina going, you won't miss it.
 
aaamax,
I've had a SUIEN vc cleaver for a while now .great cleaver but, when it was new it had way too much belly (took a log time to reprofle edge flatter) . I just got CCK 1103 a few days ago, it's definitely a keeper.
1102 will probably be my next purchase :rolleyes2:
 
In my part of the world, a bit of centered belly is often preferred and regarded as standard. The techniques for cutting accommodate that.

But there are a few places and styles that do flatter. I am not seeing a problem. I just recommend not asserting anything about "proper use".
Much appreciated. Different people have different habits, coming from different cultures and experiences, and even different morphology.
 
I prefer a flatter edge for cleavers since it allows you to rapidly chop very finely without accordianing, rock chopping with a cleaver is noticeably slower and basically (to me at least) defeats the purpose of a cleaver, if I'm going to rock chop I may as well get a nice gyuto.

Given the responses above though it seems like people think that going custom would be the best route. Unfortunately it seems Takeda does not take custom orders from the email response I got. So a secondary question is: What custom knife makers would you recommend to make a Takeda style cleaver? Most important features in order of importance: Aogami super or equivalent quality steal, extremely thin, stainless cladding, good food release, kurouchi finish, reasonable turn around time (<6 months) would be appreciated as well.

Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka custom cleaver would be a great option. Inzite got one recently and likes it!
 
Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka custom cleaver would be a great option. Inzite got one recently and likes it!

ahaha like it an understatement. I love it, great size and has some heft but yet does wonderful attacking most produce for home cooking (within reasonable sizes but fine also with larger and denser items as long as you guide it with a bit of force) :D.
 
ahaha like it an understatement. I love it, great size and has some heft but yet does wonderful attacking most produce for home cooking (within reasonable sizes but fine also with larger and denser items as long as you guide it with a bit of force) :D.


inzite you wouldn't happen to have any pictures of it lying around would you? :)
 
Wow that looks amazing!

Very nice custom order - I bet it's a ridiculous cutter...

yes it is, it cuts like a beast, more workhorse feel but it is thin at the edge and behind edge and convex up to a beefier spine. has a kato feel to it.
 
Looks great. I see that Fujiwara's standard cleaver is pretty close to my specs. Have you got any idea how thin/thick their standard cleaver is? Did you specifically ask for a thinner slicer or just the difference in finish?
 
Looks great. I see that Fujiwara's standard cleaver is pretty close to my specs. Have you got any idea how thin/thick their standard cleaver is? Did you specifically ask for a thinner slicer or just the difference in finish?

the only one i've seen a choil shot of was a resale here on kkf and it was not exactly thin, quite a beefy knife but it does taper down to a thinnish edge. Not as thin as my denka cleaver since it's somewhere between a nakiri and a full size cleaver. I think if you order TF u can probably order it with custom specs. The key difference between that one and mine is that mine is the AS steel and that one is White 1 steel.
 
From an email response it looks like the standard TF cleaver is 3.5mm thick at the spine. So not super thin. I'm wondering now though if that might be more like I want anyway. I'm a vegan so I only cook with vegetables and i think all the talk of chicken and fish bones has me a little confused...
I was assuming that I'd be better off with a thin "slicing" cleaver. But actually a lot of the cutting I will be doing will be push cutting and chopping hard root vegetables (sweet potatoe, carrot, etc. No pumpkin skin). Would people advise a thin (~2.5mm) slicing sleaver for that kind of use or would I be better served by something a little thicker to atand up to the root vegtables and occassional vigorous chopping even though the knife will never go anywhere near bones (or meat)?
 
From an email response it looks like the standard TF cleaver is 3.5mm thick at the spine. So not super thin. I'm wondering now though if that might be more like I want anyway. I'm a vegan so I only cook with vegetables and i think all the talk of chicken and fish bones has me a little confused...
I was assuming that I'd be better off with a thin "slicing" cleaver. But actually a lot of the cutting I will be doing will be push cutting and chopping hard root vegetables (sweet potatoe, carrot, etc. No pumpkin skin). Would people advise a thin (~2.5mm) slicing sleaver for that kind of use or would I be better served by something a little thicker to atand up to the root vegtables and occassional vigorous chopping even though the knife will never go anywhere near bones (or meat)?

I think mine is closer to 2.5mm on the spine, it's probably 3 exiting handle but for most of the blade it's about 2.5 to 2mm. Pretty sure the TF full size cleaver is a slicing cleaver (but on the thicker side of things), I think a larger nakiri or something like mine (smaller size slicing cleaver) would be great for what you would use it for. Most asian households get by with a slicing cleaver for non bone chopping cooking.
 
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