Rocks, rocks, and more rocks...

[cotedupy]

Life's been a bit hectic in the last month or so; I've moved back from Aus to the UK, family bereavement, and then a couple of weeks holiday with my sister. So it's taken me a little while to unpack, clean, and lap all of the various random ebay pickups I'd amassed in London since the beginning of the year.

It's possible I overbought.

Oh dear there's another box. I definitely overbought.

Hey ho, let's get unwrapping...

 

[ethompson]

You can never have enough rocks

 

[deltaplex]

To steal a quote:

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Sorry about the bereavement situation but excited to see what all ya got!

 

[cotedupy]

The very first thing I wanted to find in amongst all that was a pretty cheap lot, which looked like this in the seller's pictures:

And the reason I was excited about that was the little scrap of label left on the top stone which looked to my eye like one I'd seen once before on an Escher brand Saxonian Oilstone. The middle stone seems to be a coticule, and the bottom stone I spent a very long time looking at, because it could possibly even be another Saxonian, the box looks almost identical.

The Saxonian Oilstone or 'Troutstone' is an extremely uncommon type of German novaculite, comparable to a translucent Arkansas stone, and produced in tiny quantities sporadically in the last few hundred years up until the end of the c.19th. To find any Saxonian would be a massive stroke of luck, to find two would be pretty extraordinary, and I've only ever seen pictures of a couple of others that still have their labels.

It was only a small scrap of it left but I don't know how this one slipped past the collectors:

Quite a thick coticule 'bout rustique', fine and quite hard, this is a lovely razor stone:

And to cap it all, stone no.3 was indeed another Saxonian:

 

[cotedupy]

Most of the stones I'd bought were non id-ed punts, hoping to find gems under the grime. Here are some stones that once unwrapped feel like they might be novculites. The small stone on the right I knew was a Charnley, the others just looked interesting:

Stone 1 is a massive 1.15kg Idwal that was set sideways in its box. This stone is really quite fine, it will be a razor finishing type:

Stone 2 turns out to be a synth. Out of all the things in the first post I think I got 5 or 6 synths.

Stone 3 is large, but once unboxed is quite thin, and it's dished in funny ways. I will probably have to break this stone in two in order to flatten it properly. Not fully cleaned up yet, but I think it's a Charnley rather than an Idwal. The size and shape would suggest that too.

Stone 4 is a bit of a gem. This is a coarser Charnley Forest stone cut to a perfect 8x2, and an unusual, quite beautiful sea green colour, with spiffy, swirly patterns. Definitely a keeper!

Stone 5 is another win, a big thick slab of more typical Charnley Forest. Really nice stone this one.

The small stone 6 is similar, but perhaps finer. This is probably the finest grained CF I've had:

And a special bonus stone not in the first pic... this is a very, old, small, irregularly-shaped stone that I assume is a Charnley. Incredibly hard, fine and glassy.

 

[cotedupy]

Some Washitas.

The top two are both labelled Pike No.1s, and are really good fast stones with low SGs. The third is quite a standard type Washita - medium speed medium grit. But the big winner here is the final stone which has the highest SG, but is still smoking quick. Really high quality stone that one, and an unusual 7" example. Off the top of my head this is the only 7" Washita I've ever had excluding the India x Washita Combi.

 

[cotedupy]

I bought some AB Salmen stones too, because I wanted to try to get to the bottom of all the various types of Yellow Lake. Here we have; Llyn Idwal Yellow Lake, Red Box Yellow Lake, Yellow Box Yellow Lake, Wooden Box Salmen Stone.

More on all this in another post sometime, but the top stone is a YL branded Idwal stone, is on the coarser side of medium. The middle two seem to be the same type of Abefelleni slate, the yellow box is thicker. The bottom stone however is something different; darker, more grey, less blue, and slightly finer perhaps. I already have one of these which belonged to my grandfather but I picked up another couple because they were cheap and I wanted to compare.

 

[cotedupy]

I buy quite a few random slates, because they tend to cost almost nothing, and I always kid myself there's a chance a Thuringian might slip through. To date I've maybe picked up 15 or so ebay slates, and had one small Thuri. Here are another three mystery stones:

The stone on the left is quite a coarse grey slate, which I haven't lapped yet. The middle stone feels promising initially, but actually turns out to be a some kind of blue Welsh slate, similar to the Yellow Lakes above, but not as fine. While they will probably finish a razor, this one will not I don't think:

But then BANG... the big dark, stone on the right turns out to be 10 x 2" of Thuringia's finest 'Late Dark Blue' waterwhetstone. I am gobsmacked. This is a serious win.

Pictured (gratuitously) here with the 10x2 Yellow-Green Thuri I found earlier this year. These probably cost me less than $15 for the pair... there's gold in them hills!

 

[cotedupy]

A few smaller hones.

The top stone again turns out to be a UK slate; it looks almost identical to the middle stone, but it isn't - the middle stone is a Thuri, of a similar type to the massive one above. The bottom stone is labelled Escher Thuringian, and an interesting one too... normally the stones in this style of smaller hinged box are the harder, late period, dark blue type Thuri, whereas this is a softer grey stone. Niche differences, but you can certainly feel it when you start putting a razor on things.

 

[Hanmak17]

I'm curious what you use all of these for? I'm assuming sharpening, but sharpening what? What is the advantage of Saxonian, Charnley Forest & Thuringian?

Any pics or videos of the stones in action?

Thanks!

 

[cotedupy]

I'm curious what you use all of these for? I'm assuming sharpening, but sharpening what? What is the advantage of Saxonian, Charnley Forest & Thuringian?

Any pics or videos of the stones in action?

Thanks!

Umm, so... many historic natural European sharpening stones are relatively fine and slow. There are exceptions, but in general many of the stones might be better for razor honing and fine tool edges, rather than kitchen knives (imo). Things like Thuris, Saxonian, and Charnleys I use almost exclusively as razor finishing stones. They would be too fine and hard for kitchen knives.

Though one of the Charnleys above is fast enough to use for knives, and some Idwals can be very good. Cotis, Washitas and Turkish / Cretan are superb for knife sharpening. Also things like Dalmores and Hindustans are good knife stones.

Some, but not many, of these kinds of things can also be used for polishing. Though tbh Japanese stones are usually a better bet there ime.


(I'll try do some vids of some of the better knife stones at some point, and will add to the thread ).

 

[cotedupy]

Nice Hindostan here, on the coarser side. This is a very good knife stone. Bitey.

And zero points for guessing why I grabbed these two Dalmores. Both a little finer than the couple I've had previously, especially the one with the eye. These also have serious potential as knife stones.

 

[Hanmak17]

Umm... so many historic natural European sharpening stones are relatively fine and slow. There are exceptions, but in general many of the stones might be better for razor honing and fine tool edges, rather than kitchen knives (imo). Things like Thuris, Saxonian, and Charnleys I use almost exclusively as razor finishing stones. They would be too fine and hard for kitchen knives.

Though one of the Charnleys above is fast enough to use for knives, and some Idwals can be very good. Cotis, Washitas and Turkish / Cretan are superb for knife sharpening. Also things like Dalmores and Hindustans are good knife stones.

Some, but not many, of these kinds of things can also be used for polishing. Japanese stones are usually a better bet there ime.


(I'll try do some vids of some of the better knife stones at some point, and will add to the thread ).

That would be great!

I've never expanded beyond the Japanese stones I have. I'm always fascinated though to see new stones.

I have quite a few very fine polishing stones from various mines. Still fascinating to me that certain stones create such exceptional edges while similar stones, same hardness fineness etc, do not.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

That would be great!

I've never expanded beyond the Japanese stones I have. I'm always fascinated though to see new stones.

I have quite a few very fine polishing stones from various mines. Still fascinating to me that certain stones create such exceptional edges while similar stones, same hardness fineness etc, do not.

One word: Belgian.

 

[M1k3]

One word: Belgian.

Alternatively: Coticule

 

[cotedupy]

Oh alright then... there were of course some more cotis too

An interesting one from a strange, old, unknown vein. Fine, but quite fast. A lovely fine grit knife stone, but with some of the usual trickery will probably be quite good for razors too.

This stone is medium fine and very hard. Not so good on knives, will be better for razors I think. Though it is a half n half natural combi, so the BBW backing will be excellent whatever you throw at it:

And a nice big 7x2. This is a little coarser than the previous three, with some serious teeth on knife edges.

Something a bit odd about the four cotis in my haul is that three of them have pretty much no BBW backing. Don't often see this.

 

[Desert Rat]

The very first thing I wanted to find in amongst all that was a pretty cheap lot, which looked like this in the seller's pictures:

View attachment 193857


And the reason I was excited about that was the little scrap of label left on the top stone which looked to my eye like one I'd seen once before on an Escher brand Saxonian Oilstone. The middle stone seems to be a coticule, and the bottom stone I spent a very long time looking at, because it could possibly even be another Saxonian, the box looks almost identical.

The Saxonian Oilstone or 'Troutstone' is an extremely uncommon type of German novaculite, comparable to a translucent Arkansas stone, and produced in tiny quantities sporadically in the last few hundred years up until the end of the c.19th. To find any Saxonian would be a massive stroke of luck, to find two would be pretty extraordinary, and I've only ever seen pictures of a couple of others that still have their labels.

It was only a small scrap of it left but I don't know how this one slipped past the collectors:

View attachment 193856


Quite a thick coticule 'bout rustique', fine and quite hard, this is a lovely razor stone:

View attachment 193853

View attachment 193852


And to cap it all, stone no.3 was indeed another Saxonian:

View attachment 193858

Love to hear your thoughts on them trout stones after you have got to know them a little.

 

[Pie]

I love seeing these posts. They’re an entire world of cool stones i have no idea about. I’ve started making bases from some scrap wood and those two dalmores would look beautiful.. ahh, the new stone of others itch.. a familiar feeling .

 

[cotedupy]

A peculiar, freckly stone here; very hard and quite fine, this may well be a slightly unusual example of the mysterious 'Pierre du Sud Ouest' or PDSO, the exact origins of which are unknown. They seem to surface in the UK, but also often in rural south-west France, hence the name, other people have them as Italian, in the vicinity of Siena.

The Bear Creek whetstone; a fairly soft sandstone in the mold of Queer Creek, but notably finer. The QC I have I would rate around 1k or less, this is 2-3k. It's light grey originally, the green-ish colour here is because I haven't got all the oil out yet:

'

 

[cotedupy]

I now have a handful of very rare stones in the collection; the Moughton Whetston, Fiddich River Stone, NOS Lily White, WoA x To'S Dual Hone, and the new Escher Saxonian spring to mind. But this might trump them all:

Can you guess what it is?

How about now...

You see a number of very fine grained, very hard, bright white coloured stones sold as 'White Tams'. But the actual White Tam O'Shanter, or WTOS, produced by the Water of Ayr and Tam O'Shanter Hone Works from the Enterkine quarry, was more of a light grey colour, with very densely packed, tiny Tam speckles that are visible up close. The stone is softer, finer and (curiously) faster than any other Tam I have.

Labelled WTOS are very rare already, and when they do come up are pretty much exclusively in very small sizes - 3 to 5" are what they were cut to. Before this stone I had never seen one bigger, just a decade-old post from Neil Miller saying something along the lines of 'larger examples do exist'.

This is 8 x 1.75 x 1.5", and hadn't been used when I got it.

 

[cotedupy]

Love to hear your thoughts on them trout stones after you have got to know them a little.

Only used a couple of times so far, but they're quite like trans arks. Not quite as fine perhaps, but with nicer feedback, less hard and dead. Very good results on a razor despite the size. (The larger stone there is 100x40, the smaller is 90x30).

 

[cotedupy]

Speaking of trans arks... here's a little 4x2 slipstone, probably a Norton:

I don't specifically remember winning this stone, but I'm fairly sure it would have been very cheap, and the reason I bid on it this:

That is a box that's been specially made to hold the stone level and secure for use as a normal whetstone. I already have a handful of other 4x2 slips that I don't really use because of their annoying shape. This box is a game-changer!

 

[cotedupy]

That's almost it...

One more Coti x BBW. Though the yellow is so thin and dished that if flattened properly this is effectively just a piece of BBW:

I suspect this next one is La Lorraine, but not completely certain. It has the remnants of a label that I don't recognise:

And lastly a massive hunk of some kind of coarse sandstone grindstone thing:

 

[deltaplex]

I'd probably just use that thin coti for deburring/edge leading to finish off the BBW sharpening, don't even think I'd flatten it, tbh.

 

[cotedupy]

I'd probably just use that thin coti for deburring/edge leading to finish off the BBW sharpening, don't even think I'd flatten it, tbh.

Ah that's a good point... you could get just a touch of micro-convexity into the very edge. I like your thinking!

 

[deltaplex]

Get those hairs poppin'

 

[tostadas]

I never thought I'd be so interested reading about history of rocks.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Yuck. I’ll bet all those dirty dirt stones made a mess all over your house. How well do they compare against a more modern and advanced piece of technology like Sharp Pebble?

I’m totally not jealous btw.

 

[captaincaed]

* opens backpack *
* follows around like a lost puppy *