sandy produce?

[noj]

I am guessing I might be getting edge damage due to sand. Cilantro is a common offender. It comes very sandy, and I soak/wash it extensively. I don't notice sand in the food, but I think enough might remain to damage edges while chopping. I am not rock-chopping, and the edge damage isn't everywhere - just a few random spots that look like they hit a grain of sand. I have seen how to chop herbs, and follow a similar procedure, although I end up using a lot more force chopping 6 cups of cilantro leaves. I don't see any edge rolling cutting other things with the same force, so I don't think it's that.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Maybe even more repeated soaking in a large volume of water, and rinsing. I guess I could use a more workhorse (or junky) knife too.

 

[Choppin]

Maybe softer steel and not too thin BTE? I'm thinking Misono or other monosteel Kanto-style gyuto.

 

[knifeq2121]

very easy to roll edge and ping if you’re trying to chop too much st once. i would slow down with a smaller amount and try slicing the herbs. i don’t think it’s sand if you’re washing properly.

 

[noj]

Sometimes it's got to be done by such-and-such time;-) I have an old Sabatier ground to 25 DPS. I could have used that, but it tends to leave crushed herbs on the board.

 

[knifeq2121]

Sometimes it's got to be done by such-and-such time;-) I have an old Sabatier ground to 25 DPS. I could have used that, but it tends to leave crushed herbs on the board.

i cut quite a lot of herbs and haven’t experienced this kind of edge damage before. are you using a hard plastic board?

 

[noj]

i cut quite a lot of herbs and haven’t experienced this kind of edge damage before. are you using a hard plastic board?

I don't use hard plastic. I get the same result on end-grain or rubber.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Sounds like a good excuse for a Sanjo workhorse to me

I've had some really sandy leeks make a mess on my cutting board but no edge damage on my ultra thin Shindo edges.

 

[knifeq2121]

I don't use hard plastic. I get the same result on end-grain or rubber.

try changing technique and if that doesn’t work maybe wash again?

 

[sumis]

wash better.

don't rinse; submerge; spin in salad spinner; repeat; and then air dry on workbench.
keep the cilantro in an airtight box in the fridge; keeps fresh-ish for up to ten days.

.

 

[Rangen]

I find that my $3 plastic rice washer functions very well for getting sand out of product. Lots of agitation under running water. My cilantro doesn't come sandy, but spinach is a different story.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Sounds like an edge issue to me. Either too thin or maybe leaving a burr that gives a false edge until it is used.

 

[noj]

Sounds like an edge issue to me. Either too thin or maybe leaving a burr that gives a false edge until it is used.

Doesn't happen with other produce, including stuff with more board contact/pressure.

If it matters, the knife I used was a Masamoto KS gyuto. It's been sharpened several times, and not thinned yet, so for sure not too TBE, and the edge bevel is about 14 DPS.

I can see a large enough ding in the edge, than I can't imagine is from a burr.

 

[M1k3]

Try a second wash.

Maybe a little less cilantro at a time?

If that doesn't do the trick, watch your lateral forces on the edge.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

wash better.

don't rinse; submerge; spin in salad spinner; repeat; and then air dry on workbench.
keep the cilantro in an airtight box in the fridge; keeps fresh-ish for up to ten days.

.

i'm with this person. wash better. i get a lot of cilantro from local growers and it is filthy. you have to soak in a large amount of water so the sediment can drift off and into the bottom of the vessel. i use a salad spinner so i can pull the basket, dump water into my garden, and repeat. the dirt needs a place to go. a big vessel solves this. i'm weird. i dont like gritty water to go down my drain. dumb, i know. i put it onto a plant in my garden 100%

 

[More_Gyutos]

i'm with this person. wash better. i get a lot of cilantro from local growers and it is filthy. you have to soak in a large amount of water so the sediment can drift off and into the bottom of the vessel. i use a salad spinner so i can pull the basket, dump water into my garden, and repeat. the dirt needs a place to go. a big vessel solves this. i'm weird. i dont like gritty water to go down my drain. dumb, i know. i put it onto a plant in my garden 100%

I agree with this except I would submerge the cilantro in a big vessel or sink, wave a bunch, let it sit for a few minutes for the sand to settle, then lift just the cilantro out of the container, dump the water, repeat until the water is sand free (check the bottom) then salad spin. If you use a spinner and the cilantro is very sandy, the sand can stay in the basket or maybe they don’t hold enough water to thoroughly clean. I used to work at a taco place and that Is what we did. Of course this assumes it doesn’t bother you to put the sand down your sink.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

I agree with this except I would submerge the cilantro in a big vessel or sink, wave a bunch, let it sit for a few minutes for the sand to settle, then lift just the cilantro out of the container, dump the water, repeat until the water is sand free (check the bottom) then salad spin. If you use a spinner and the cilantro is very sandy, the sand can stay in the basket or maybe they don’t hold enough water to thoroughly clean. I used to work at a taco place and that Is what we did. Of course this assumes it doesn’t bother you to put the sand down your sink.

That’s best. But I want to use water to water plants. I don’t use huge batches like a restaurant would.

 

[noj]

Thanks everyone. I am going to try better washing techniques first.

The Sanjo workhorse sounds like more fun, but I think the washing is the place to start.

The cutting technique I used was a pure downward motion; no rocking, twisting, or push/pull. I tried to avoid pushing the edge into the board, but I am sure smaller amounts would help there.

Before taking it to the stones, I found the knife very sharp. There were three little chips (for lack of better terminology), and the rest of the edge seemed fine. It took 3 passes on SP-1000 to remove them all. That seem like a ding more likely caused by sand, than a sharpening problem.

I refined a little on Aizu. Finished with edge leading on Aizu, and then BB. All better.

Feel free to enlighten me if you have better ideas. Will report back when I try again.

 

[knifeq2121]

try slicing forward instead of up and down chop

 

[Benuser]

Sometimes it's got to be done by such-and-such time;-) I have an old Sabatier ground to 25 DPS. I could have used that, but it tends to leave crushed herbs on the board.

With crushed herbs there is a serious sharpening problem.
Not willing to derail the thread, but was it perhaps a stainless Sab? The carbon ones take a very refined edge, both in geometry as in grit. No need for a 50° inclusive edge. I'd guess it needs a very serious thinning. Once that achieved you may sharpen it as any other carbon, but should add some convexity when getting further in the progression. Carbon Sabs benefit from a highly polished, convexed edge.

 

[Nemo]

With crushed herbs there is a serious sharpening problem.
Not willing to derail the thread, but was it perhaps a stainless Sab? The carbon ones take a very refined edge, both in geometry as in grit. No need for a 50° inclusive edge. I'd guess it needs a very serious thinning. Once that achieved you may sharpen it as any other carbon, but should add some convexity when getting further in the progression. Carbon Sabs benefit from a highly polished, convexed edge.

How hard is the steel on a carbon Sab? I guess it's not that hard if it benefits from a convexed edge?

Do you happen to know the appropriate composition of the steel?

 

[Benuser]

How hard is the steel on a carbon Sab? I guess it's not that hard if it benefits from a convexed edge?

Do you happen to know the appropriate composition of the steel?

Soft, very soft. 54-56Rc, some poor makes even lower. The best vintages are a few points harder than modern ones. XC60 seems to be the most commonly used. Traditionally maintained with a steel rod — I hope a very smooth or even polished one. The idea of a highly polished convex edge comes from descriptions about how they used to be traditionally sharpened. With the steel's fine structure they still get crazy sharp. I maintain them with Belgian Blue, a Naniwa Junpaku Snow-white 8k or a Shapton Pro 12k (which both give an 8k with some bite). They respond very well to leather stropping — if done correctly, which is far from simple.
When kept thin BTE the required force is reduced, and so is the impact on the board. The traditional French cutting style is 'guillotine & glide', with minimal board contact. The first thing apprentices used to hear was 'Que je ne vous entende pas !' — I don't want to hear you!

 

[mengwong]

Chop up a bar of soap instead, it tastes the same and won’t damage the knife

 

[mengwong]

sand

See? CATRA is predictive in the kitchen after all

 

[Michi]

Chop up a bar of soap instead, it tastes the same and won’t damage the knife

Only to people with a genetic disorder

 

[Naftoor]

I’ve never understood the soap thing. Cilantro just tastes nauseating, as in literally vomit inducing. Even the smell has been able to set off the family, although weirdly enough most of them outgrew it. I am the lone, genetic anomaly with a same-same but different mutation from the soap thing who hasn’t outgrown it. My crusade against the herb is as unceaseless as the one against shallots. So many dishes wasted with the addition of the former, so much money wasted with the purchases of the latter

 

[boomchakabowwow]

bummer. i love the grassy herbaciousness of cilantro. i used to annoy my mom, and eat it off her chopping block.

sandy produce? i have dinged the edge on dirty LEEKS. you have to cut them open to clean, and by then the damage is done.

no biggie, i dont use high$ stuff anyways, and i am good a sharpening.

 

[noj]

With crushed herbs there is a serious sharpening problem.
Not willing to derail the thread, but was it perhaps a stainless Sab? The carbon ones take a very refined edge, both in geometry as in grit. No need for a 50° inclusive edge. I'd guess it needs a very serious thinning. Once that achieved you may sharpen it as any other carbon, but should add some convexity when getting further in the progression. Carbon Sabs benefit from a highly polished, convexed edge.

The knife I used which raised my question was a Masamoto KS gyuto.

I mentioned the Sab as an alternative, just because it's become my go-to junky knife. The Sab is a 55 y/o carbon steel one. I spent ages thinning it. It was a difficult process, in part because of the large low spots. I eventually got all the low spots within 10 mm of the edge. That said, it isn't over thinned. I tried various edge bevel angles: 15 and 20 DPS. They all just fall apart in use - as in one home cooked meal. 25 DPS holds up long enough to be sort of useful.

 

[noj]

try slicing forward instead of up and down chop

That's what I usually do. I was trying a different method I saw on a video. I saw the same edge problem in both cases, so I am going after the sand/cleaning next. The edge damage looked like what I might expect from a few bits of sand. The edge was nice, all clean and sharp, but had 3 shiny nicks.

 

[Benuser]

The knife I used which raised my question was a Masamoto KS gyuto.

I mentioned the Sab as an alternative, just because it's become my go-to junky knife. The Sab is a 55 y/o carbon steel one. I spent ages thinning it. It was a difficult process, in part because of the large low spots. I eventually got all the low spots within 10 mm of the edge. That said, it isn't over thinned. I tried various edge bevel angles: 15 and 20 DPS. They all just fall apart in use - as in one home cooked meal. 25 DPS holds up long enough to be sort of useful.

What brand is the Sab?

 

[noj]

What brand is the Sab?

It's an elephant four star.