Sauce on top, the Italian-American way

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ian said:
I have dreams to this day about the tomato pastas I would make myself as a postdoc 10 years ago. I was living alone, dating lots, hitting up all the amazing New Haven, CT clubs (this is half tongue in cheek, but only half), and during the summer I’d bike down to the quite excellent farmers market, drop like $60 on these awesome tomatoes, and treat myself (and perhaps my companion of the moment) to dried spaghetti with the best, simplest pasta with tomato sauce ever. I can’t remember exactly how I cooked it nowadays, since I have lost the technique in a fog of romance, from which it can never be fully extracted. However, I imagine it was something more or less like this:

Get amazing tomatoes (I was using whatever big luscious ones they had at the farmers market. Think brandywines or green zebras or whatever instead of romas.)
Peel them (or don’t, depending on the tomato),
Coarsely dice and salt them, put them in a strainer over a bowl.
Boil some water, salt it.
Put a pan on medium low heat or whatever.
throw the pasta into the water.
put some olive oil in the warming pan and throw in some minced garlic. Let it cook gently for a couple minutes, and don’t let it color.
throw the tomatoes in the pan (reserve the juice for now)
cook the tomatoes for just a couple minutes till they break down a bit, which shouldn’t take long if they’ve been salted and peeled, and if they’re fancy soft heirloom ****ers.
take the pasta out of the water with tongs and throw into the pan. There should hopefully be enough starch clinging to the noodles to thicken the sauce slightly. But don’t overdo it. The sauce should already be somewhat thick because you strained out the excess juice. Add some juice if it’s too thick.
throw in a knob of butter and a bunch of herbs. I like thyme, basil, oregano and such. use, like, a lot of herbs. Perhaps 1 or 2 ****tons, to taste.
stir rapidly with the tongs. add a little cheese if you like (don’t add a really strong tasting parmesan. If you have a milder one, that’s good, or pecorino or something)
put it on a plate
add more cheese
eat, and drink wine
take your companion(s) to bed
wake up in the morning before they get up, and make them breakfast potatoes.
repeat
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Can you turn this into an algorithm or something?
 
rickbern said:
Marcella hazan was not a big proponent of using pasta cooking water to thicken the sauce, she disdainfully called it “pasta roux”. One of the few pieces advice from her that I’ve chosen to ignore.

She is originally from emiglia Romano and she was always a proponent of a butter based tomato sauce with a whisper of onion.

Worth giving it a try

https://www.marilenaskitchen.com/20...ns-pasta-with-simple-tomato-and-butter-sauce/
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That’s another. Butter........ My family is from southern Italy and the only thing my mom or aunts would us butter for was cookies. Than in restaurants I work with chefs that were all mostly from northern Italy and those guys put butter in everything.

I use butter here and there now. In my bolognese or other pastas when I pick them up but there are a few I am anti butter about and pomodoro is one.
 
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ian said:
You tell me which programming language you can compile and send me some documentation for your bodily API, and I’ll write you the relevant code.
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Ccook++, or do you prefer Forcook? Ccook.net? Or you a bare bones kind and prefer Cook Language? Let me find that documentation. Might be behind the fryer..
 
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In honor of this thread, here’s lunch.

C5F354EC-94CC-4165-BD26-91E72B67827B.jpeg
 
I grew up with sauce on the top but that was more because that's the way my dad wanted it. Now I mix the pasta with the sauce and a little pasta water. When I make a big batch of sauce I cook the sauce in one pot, pasta in another, reserve some pasta water, then spoon in sauce and water into the pasta pot until the ratio is perfect. I also under cook the pasta by 1-2mins so they can cook for a little while to let the flavor blend. The extra sauce either goes into the refrigerator or the freezer depending on how much I made.
 
I grow my own tomatoes which is probably why the sauce I make is so wet at the beginning. One of the issues I have noticed is that the sauce from fresh tomatoes always looks anemic because it’s very light pink. Don’t really know what to do about it though. Maybe if I left on the skins?
 
gregfisk said:
I grow my own tomatoes which is probably why the sauce I make is so wet at the beginning. One of the issues I have noticed is that the sauce from fresh tomatoes always looks anemic because it’s very light pink. Don’t really know what to do about it though. Maybe if I left on the skins?
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Do you remove the juice first? To start from fresh tomatoes and get a fully cooked sauce can be a bit of a process.

The longer you cook the sauce the thicker it'll get. I'd imagine to get the right consistency from fresh tomatoes with a high water content would take about 3-4 hours.
 
TSF415 said:
Do you remove the juice first? To start from fresh tomatoes and get a fully cooked sauce can be a bit of a process.

The longer you cook the sauce the thicker it'll get. I'd imagine to get the right consistency from fresh tomatoes with a high water content would take about 3-4 hours.
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I see the guys on the cooking shows cutting up tomatoes and in a few minutes they have their sauce. I end up cooking them for hours and the sauce is still pink and not very pretty.
 
You can make a fresh tomato sauce in a few minutes which I think is the way to go with tomatoes you grow. But then it is only a few minutes. You still want the water content to be inside the tomato. A little olive oil, some garlic, your tomatoes, then add a little pasta water, a little cheese, toss the pasta, throw in a little basil, maybe a little ricotta and you got yourself an absolutely delicious dish.
 
A fresh tomato sauce is usually diced tomatoes, and should only be cooked for a few minutes. But a real 'tomato sauce' usually is simmered for hours to get a thick sauce, and will be more of a pulpy consistency than actual tomato chunks. A fresh tomato sauce using diced tomatoes can be very tasty. And I will argue to quality of tomatoes needs to be high in order to get a good sauce. But with a long-simmered sauce you can still get something very tasty even if the tomatoes are mediocre.
 
WildBoar said:
A fresh tomato sauce is usually diced tomatoes, and should only be cooked for a few minutes. But a real 'tomato sauce' usually is simmered for hours to get a thick sauce, and will be more of a pulpy consistency than actual tomato chunks. A fresh tomato sauce using diced tomatoes can be very tasty. And I will argue to quality of tomatoes needs to be high in order to get a good sauce. But with a long-simmered sauce you can still get something very tasty even if the tomatoes are mediocre.
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TSF415 said:
You can make a fresh tomato sauce in a few minutes which I think is the way to go with tomatoes you grow. But then it is only a few minutes. You still want the water content to be inside the tomato. A little olive oil, some garlic, your tomatoes, then add a little pasta water, a little cheese, toss the pasta, throw in a little basil, maybe a little ricotta and you got yourself an absolutely delicious dish.
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How much do y'all cook the tomatoes? If the tomatoes are soft heirlooms and you want the water to still be in the tomatoes, I feel like you can hardly heat them. Maybe just get them up to temp and then immediately stop. Haven't tried a fresh tomato sauce with romas.... maybe you can heat them more. But if I cook them longer (like 5 min), which I prefer because I like a sauce and not tomato chunks, I often need to remove some of the juice, lest it be too watery. Thoughts?
 
valgard said:
Some stuff I mix in the sauce before serving but when I make a big batch of ragu or something that will yield more than one meal I am lazy and don't use an extra container just to mix the current batch of pasta with a portion of the sauce, instead just put on top and we mix it on our own plates. Doesn't answer the question but it could be one explanation of how it came to be.
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this x2

prefer canned san marzano over fresh tomato, and definitely finish with butter. buttah make it mo bettah.
on the rare occurance i do use fresh tomato, it's usually over ripened cherry tomatoes just to use it up instead of throwing it out. halve them and broil first.
 
ian said:
How much do y'all cook the tomatoes? If the tomatoes are soft heirlooms and you want the water to still be in the tomatoes, I feel like you can hardly heat them. Maybe just get them up to temp and then immediately stop. Haven't tried a fresh tomato sauce with romas.... maybe you can heat them more. But if I cook them longer (like 5 min), which I prefer because I like a sauce and not tomato chunks, I often need to remove some of the juice, lest it be too watery. Thoughts?
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i think it's a bit of a waste to cook heirloom tomatoes, theyre best eaten raw. my favorite fresh tomatoes are campari though.
 
panda said:
on the rare occurance i do use fresh tomato, it's usually over ripened cherry tomatoes just to use it up instead of throwing it out. halve them and broil first.
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Yea, I do this a lot too.

Actually, another good way is half-dried tomatoes. Like, salt them and put them in a warm place (e.g. 120ish degree oven or something?) and then leave them for a while. I do this with cherries a lot, but I imagine it'd be pretty good with diced big tomatoes too. Have to try sometime.

panda said:
prefer canned san marzano over fresh tomato
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Heathen. Although canned can be pretty good.

panda said:
i think it's a bit of a waste to cook heirloom tomatoes, theyre best eaten raw. my favorite fresh tomatoes are campari though.
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Fair enough, but my most memorable sauces were from heirloom.
 
I use Alta Cucina tomatoes which are California grown San Mariano style.

Only time i would make sauce from fresh tomatoes is when my mom would lock us in a 100degree garage and make us process a truck load of tomatoes and jar up sauce to divide between families.
 
I grow heirloom tomatoes of several varieties. My favorites are Black Krim “Russian”, Momotoros “Japanese” and Brandywine “US. What I’ve learned is that Roma’s have a lot less moisture in them which is probably why they are used to make tomato sauce. They also don’t taste that great compared to the other tomatoes I mentioned. For cherry tomatoes I like Sungold or Isis, both are very sweet.
 
You can an authentic version of fresh tomato sauce (see, eg frutti di mare) by following the directions for aglio e olio and adding a dice of roma tomatoes.

NB that this is a "sleight of hand" substitution...it will yield the same look and overall 'effect' in many ways. Its also very fast, simple, and cheap to do.

Use good ingredients and cook the pasta with some bite.

Using roma shape / san marzano etc is preferable for certain things, I think the discussion about heirlooms etc is a red herring.

Its more important to use good ingredients in general in a simple dish.
 
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I worked with a chef from Bergamo and he would toss the pasta with butter before adding it to the sauce. I prefer quality olive oil over butter for fresh quick cooked tomato sauces.

For a saucy texture I would use San Marzano. If you need that fresh edge use both fresh and canned. Not all canned tomatoes are of the same quality. Cento is a pretty solid grocery store brand.

Even my young kids will notice domestic parm and request it be left out if it is all that is available. Use the good stuff only.
 
Chuckles said:
I worked with a chef from Bergamo and he would toss the pasta with butter before adding it to the sauce. I prefer quality olive oil over butter for fresh quick cooked tomato sauces.

For a saucy texture I would use San Marzano. If you need that fresh edge use both fresh and canned. Not all canned tomatoes are of the same quality. Cento is a pretty solid grocery store brand.

Even my young kids will notice domestic parm and request it be left out if it is all that is available. Use the good stuff only.
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I never liked parmesan until I tried the good stuff which was only once I started working at a luxury resort.
 
If you can find them, Alessi is my current favorite supermarket brand of canned tomato here in central Florida. But brands are irrelevant, and will vary by location. Look for any san marzanos packed in their own juices (NO tomato puree!) and without calcium chloride.
 
spaceconvoy said:
If you can find them, Alessi is my current favorite supermarket brand of canned tomato here in central Florida. But brands are irrelevant, and will vary by location. Look for any san marzanos packed in their own juices (NO tomato puree!) and without calcium chloride.
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We buy San marzanos this way at Restaurant Depot, don’t recall what the brand is though. They are whole peeled in their own juices with a basil leaf thrown in. We were lucky enough to have a friend who managed the place and got us a membership. I’m not in the restaurant business but sure like going there.
 
HRC_64 said:
You can an authentic version of fresh tomato sauce (see, eg frutti di mare) by following the directions for aglio e olio and adding a dice of roma tomatoes.

NB that this is a "sleight of hand" substitution...it will yield the same look and overall 'effect' in many ways. Its also very fast, simple, and cheap to do.

Use good ingredients and cook the pasta with some bite.

Using roma shape / san marzano etc is preferable for certain things, I think the discussion about heirlooms etc is a red herring.

Its more important to use good ingredients in general in a simple dish.
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Why do you think Roma type tomato’s are preferred for making pasta? They are certainly meatier than heirloom tomatoes but they sure don’t taste as good when eating them raw.
 
I'd argue those references indicate why it's easier to make sauce from romas (etc) than heirlooms, namely the lower water content. With care and proper handling, heirlooms can make a great sauce. It's true it's not economical to use them in that way, but sometimes I want to do it anyway! Come on people, allow me to make a $25 pasta sauce if I want to.

I know this thread isn't about chicken stock, but sometimes I like to make my stock by sauteeing the vegetables in the fat from rendered iberico ham, then adding a few handfuls of store bought morels and chanterelles that I blacken in a cast iron pan. I then filter the broth (which I cook for 2 days) through a few layers of cheesecloth that I've died yellow with handfuls of saffron --- I really like yellow in my kitchen, and nothing else has quite the right shade. The walls are painted in the same color. The little flecks of red/golf left over in the paint are quite striking.
 
This article rings true to my experience. Romas are a lot meatier and don’t have nearly the water content of my other tomatoes I grow. I’ve grown them several times now but only use them for sauce. They don’t taste good fresh in my opinion.
 
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