Shapton advice

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strongly considering permasoaking a suehiro. do you like the rika more than the ouka? that one seems to be more widely discussed for whatever reason.
I hear good things about Rika, but have not used one. Imo the Cerax is a gem in the shadow of its popular stablemate.
 
Hey, @kot_blini. My profile is severely restricted rn for some reason so apologies for not quoting or reacting. About edge retention... Maybe? It's not something I think about because good enough is good enough. If you're thinking about a number like the CATRA tests then it's important to temper those results against use and predictions in the kitchen, as you're trying to do here, because CATRA goes to waaaaay duller than anything people would choose to use. A 10% increase on CATRA could be reduced to 2.5% increase IRL or anywhere in between or outside that range because extra retention is, ofc, at the end. It's theoretical and so helps to for design decisions but proof is in the cuts. It just doesn't matter much for a home cook that knows how to sharpen, imo.
no worries thanks for the response! wasn’t thinking about CATRA at all. everyone says that edge retention doesn’t matter for home use but my carbons fail quickly enough to annoy me. too much onion and tomato i guess. but thats a subjective judgement so maybe id be less annoyed if i had access to something other than a messed up shapton and a king 6k to refresh the edge
 
strongly considering permasoaking a suehiro. do you like the rika more than the ouka? that one seems to be more widely discussed for whatever reason.
Ouka has rivals such as Naniwa 3k and Shapton 2k. Rika, does not. The reputation of Naniwa and Shapton's 5k stones is not very good.
 
i think im gonna roll with the cerax 5000 and pick up a takamura chromax now that they’re back in stock. Unless you all rush to your keyboards to explain why that’s a terrible idea. Should be a nice upgrade from the nihonko stuff :)
And perhaps more importantly, a nice upgrade from 180mm max length which was driving me crazy too.

Its cool that the cerax 5k has carborundum/SiC mixed with alumina, im hoping that might make it more versatile.

I’ll just accept that if i truly need splash and go i can get it once that need is clear. Thanks for all the advice everyone!
 
Enjoy, @kot_blini 😀 You're changing a million things at once here so be judicious about cause and effect? A lot of the difference will just be that sweet, sweet Takamura geometry 😉
 
shapton glass 500 +2k+4K+8k+16k is my dream-come-true set

my other set of rival is atoma diamond plate 400 + chosera 800+chosera 3K + rika 5k + kitayama 8k

shapton on my hand is preferably used for single bevels, since I do not need to flatten the ceramics.

the other set is for double bevels
 
shapton glass 500 +2k+4K+8k+16k is my dream-come-true set

my other set of rival is atoma diamond plate 400 + chosera 800+chosera 3K + rika 5k + kitayama 8k

shapton on my hand is preferably used for single bevels, since I do not need to flatten the ceramics.

the other set is for double bevels
I heard the chosera 3k and rika 5k are in practice quite close in grit. What role does each fill in your double bevel set?

It makes sense that absolute flatness wouldn’t be as crucial for narrow double bevel knives
 
I heard the chosera 3k and rika 5k are in practice quite close in grit. What role does each fill in your double bevel set?

It makes sense that absolute flatness wouldn’t be as crucial for narrow double bevel knives
I cannot speak for the Rika, but the Cerax 5k is distinctly finer than my Chosera 3k.
 
I heard the chosera 3k and rika 5k are in practice quite close in grit. What role does each fill in your double bevel set?

It makes sense that absolute flatness wouldn’t be as crucial for narrow double bevel knives
I bought rika before chosera 3k... does this explain itself? LoL

chosera 3k feels like a 4k, rika like a 4.5k.

since rika only needs like 5min soaking, it is almost a splash-n-go: if i soak it when i start with chosera 800, soaking is done when the 800 round is done.

also, when i use rika, i usually end there, and when i use chosera 3k, i end with kitayama 8k
 
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shapton glass 500 +2k+4K+8k+16k is my dream-come-true set

my other set of rival is atoma diamond plate 400 + chosera 800+chosera 3K + rika 5k + kitayama 8k

shapton on my hand is preferably used for single bevels, since I do not need to flatten the ceramics.

the other set is for double bevels

I have all of those except the 16k. Great setup. I tried it once. Prefer the Shapton Pro 12k for knives and the Naniwa Super Stone 12k for razors. Couldn't quite get with the 16k.
 
My shaptons tend to load up in the middle - you can see the dark swarf in the lineup below. Left to right below are SG220, 500, 1k, 4k. I have an SP2k I haven’t used yet and probably should not have purchased given my lineup. I flatten regularly, so the swarf pattern is from finger pressure on a flat stone, as you’d expect.

Personally if money is tight, I’d get either a 2k or 4k, but not both. I just don’t find myself reaching for the 1k or 2k very much at all these days. Something coarse like a 220 or 320 is also rarely used but invaluable when you need it, and if I had a do-over I’d skip both the 1k and 2k and just go 220/500/4k.

I have the field stone holder and love it. It’s hugely convenient to just lift stones in and out without fiddling with knobs, and it’s heavy enough not to move around while in use (I use a rubber mat underneath though). My nanohone DR fits perfectly as well.

IMG_0076.jpeg
 
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I cannot speak for the Rika, but the Cerax 5k is distinctly finer than my Chosera 3k.
the cerax 5000 and the rika are the same stone! The ouka and cerax 3k are identical as well. Suehiro just changes the branding for different markets.
 
I wish I could find a receipt for the pro 2k but it was bought like 18 months ago. It was a gift to my parents so I feel I should replace it with a fully functional version now that I can be confident it’s defective. I’ll be able to get some experience with it and hopefully it will give me a fairer representation of what the higher grit shaptons are about.
 
I wish I could find a receipt for the pro 2k but it was bought like 18 months ago. It was a gift to my parents so I feel I should replace it with a fully functional version now that I can be confident it’s defective. I’ll be able to get some experience with it and hopefully it will give me a fairer representation of what the higher grit shaptons are about.
Damn, that's rough. So many good reports on the Shapton Pro 2k but it is what it is.
 
the cerax 5000 and the rika are the same stone! The ouka and cerax 3k are identical as well. Suehiro just changes the branding for different markets.
I remember seeing a post somewhere from someone who contacted Suehiro and they said the same thing.
 
I’d still give’m a go. The one King I have (6k) is a terrible stone. It fails on more alloyed steels, and the simple ones it cuts slowly and with “do I have mittens on?” feedback. If nothing else, a Shapton will impress or disgust you in 1/5 of the time a King* will.

Oh, and in use my stone emits an odor reminiscent of stepped-on dog poo.

*based on my sample size of one
The King stones are very nice. Soakers, yes. Dish quickly, yes. Not in a class with Naniwa Pro or Shaptons. But effective for the price.

Except the 6K. The 6K is a useless block of suck.
 
The King stones are very nice. Soakers, yes. Dish quickly, yes. Not in a class with Naniwa Pro or Shaptons. But effective for the price.

Except the 6K. The 6K is a useless block of suck.
I actually never intended to buy it. I heard the King 4k was a good value for money though, so I bought one from Lee Valley. Oops!
@branwell

Interesting thing about [my own, bought from Lee Valley] Ice Bear 4k: It's actually the 6k King (s-3 in my case) -- I got Lee Valley customer service to admit this and reimburse me due to their erroneous labeling.

To be quite fair, Lee Valley explained that they sold it as a 4k due to the somewhat loose particle grading in the King 6k; they explained the largest particles within the matrix places it roughly around the 4k mark, relative to the other stones they sell.

Actually I’m gonna try to get in touch with the sellers even though it’s been a while. Maybe they’ll blow me off but it’s worth a shot. All in all I’ve spent nearly $80 on mislabeled or defective stones. Could’ve bought gesshins for that kind of money!
 
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... All in all I’ve spent nearly $80 on mislabeled or defective stones. Could’ve bought gesshins for that kind of money!

Still can!

Your $80 is a sunk cost, just like wrapping the stone with 4 20's and pitching it in the drink...
 
I actually never intended to buy it. I heard the King 4k was a good value for money though, so I bought one from Lee Valley. Oops!


Actually I’m gonna try to get in touch with the sellers even though it’s been a while. Maybe they’ll blow me off but it’s worth a shot. All in all I’ve spent nearly $80 on mislabeled or defective stones. Could’ve bought gesshins for that kind of money!
Sending good thoughts your way.
 
SG500, SG2000, SG4000 is a good set up and one I esp like for sharpening friends knives. 500 gets it started, 2000 is a good finisher for Germans and other softer steels and a good step towards the 4000 for the Shun and Shun Lites of the world. And it all fits in the field holder. Good for my own when I need a quick and dirty, right damn now sharpening (I normally prefer Gesshin soakers for my stuff).

If I wanted to play with a soaker, and considering I often go from a SG2k to an Ark or BBW or SG4k, would the Gesshin 2k be the one for me?
 
G2K might be best synthetic ever made. Sometimes downshift to. Gesshin 800 diamond or SP1000 to get that burr going. Finish w G4K or G6K, doending on blade.
 
I have all of those except the 16k. Great setup. I tried it once. Prefer the Shapton Pro 12k for knives and the Naniwa Super Stone 12k for razors. Couldn't quite get with the 16k.
Totally understand!

my hands tell me that the Shapton glass 16k is not abrasing enough. it takes ages to go to where it should.

Since I bought it as a pack from MTC new year sales, there is nothing i can complain
 
I keep a set of glass in the kitchen - rest of stones live in workshop.
They’re great for touching stuff up and keeping stuff cutting.
If I want to do any thinning or polishing then I’m more likely to go with naniwas as feedback is better and can slurry etc for polishing more readily.
 
This is what the probably faulty shapton 2k looks like. I wanted to share in case anyone runs into this issue in the future. I know it only looks like a thin ring but it seems to have this magic property of migrating inward to match the amount chamfering you’ve done. The stone has only been lightly used since its last surface refresh.

I appreciate all your pictures of normal shaptons in use. They were very helpful!
 

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G2K might be best synthetic ever made. Sometimes downshift to. Gesshin 800 diamond or SP1000 to get that burr going. Finish w G4K or G6K, doending on blade.

Ordered.

My wallet advises this makes two stones and one knife you've influenced me to buy! 😁
 
I think you should buy a nice flats boat next. And keep it in Fl for when you want to go fishing....

And then you'll need a deba!
 
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