shapton glass use

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by big D, Feb 12, 2019.

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  1. Feb 12, 2019 #1

    big D

    big D

    big D

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    I just purchased 500, 1000, and 4000 shapton glass stones. My old stones are soakers.
    When squirting water on the stones it just beads up and gets pushed off in a stroke or two.
    Is the purpose of the water just to wash off the gritty residue from sharpening?
    If it is for lubrication, are you suppose to splash it every other stroke? Stones act like they are severely dehydrated.
    Thanks
    D.
     
  2. Feb 12, 2019 #2

    Ivang

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    If water beads up on the surface the stone is not dehydrated, just add more water and use it. These are easy to use stones, dont over think it, watch a couple of videos and go.
     
  3. Feb 12, 2019 #3

    never mind

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    Great stones, a pleasure to use!
     
  4. Feb 12, 2019 #4

    never mind

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  5. Feb 12, 2019 #5

    Bert2368

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    Try using a drop of detergent to cut the surface tension in a cup of water and rubbing the mix over the stone at the start of use?

    These stones are "splash and go". I have the 500 double thick Shapton glass and don't soak it, the instructions said NOT to leave it in water. I keep a small pump spray bottle which used to be full of glasses cleaner with the water + one drop of Dawn dish detergent added per cup next to the stone and give it a squirt or two before starting and another whenever it looks/feels like it could use more.
     
  6. Feb 12, 2019 #6

    galvaude

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    Detergent seriously ?!

    OP Shapton Glass stones are the most splash and go stones I ever tried. Plain water is all you need and the beads are normal as the stones don’t absorb water.
     
  7. Feb 13, 2019 #7

    Bert2368

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    Yup. Seriously.

    Just enough to break surface tension, OP did write that the water "beads up".

    It really is what I use. On all my Shaptons, my translucent hard Arkansas and other natural stones.

    I use a really cheap, non ammonia water based generic glass cleaner sprayed on right out of the bottle on my diamond plates if I'm taking off a lot of metal with them.

    These are free rinsing and very dilute solutions, I am certainly not the only person who does this.
     
  8. Feb 13, 2019 #8

    big D

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    @never mind - Thanks for the video. Think that clears it up, I believe. My mister is to fine I think. Next sharpening session will just use a cup to see if that solves it.

    @Bert- Thanks Bert. I've used soap off and on but as a lubricant in itself, along with some water. Also as an attempt to help clean the stones, though not sure if that was futile or not. But it did lengthen my sessions a bit before I had to add more water. Do believe I read somewhere not to use soap on these or perhaps some other splash and go. Anyway, what your adding is minuscule, and I wasn't aware of it breaking the surface tension. Will keep it in mind if I continue to have problems.

    @ Ivang and galvaude- Thank you for your input. Yes add more water seems like what I need indeed.

    Thanks to everyone responding.
    D.
     
  9. Feb 14, 2019 #9

    vicv

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    That's how soap works. It breaks the surface tension of water allowing it to get under dirt and stuff. I've never used soap on my stones but I do on lapping film
     
  10. Feb 14, 2019 #10

    never mind

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    Hey big D, love your name. Welcome to the forum. That happened to me too, and yes, I freaked out ***. I was concerned, and it was hard to find a reason why the beading happened scientifically. ...The guys in the vdo used shaptons all day long, so that was a peace of mind that I would just do what they did (notice they believe in edge-leading as well as edge-trailing during sharpening, I think Bob Kramer too?).


    Then I just used the stones like the guys in the vdo did and the concern disappeared. Now, I dunno why I don’t have that beading problem anymore. The stone is legit & not a fake stone like I might fear about it when that happened.


    About three years now, I still use the big mister, very convenient, slightly cleaner & moderately faster in cleaning knives and stones during sharpening. I used to use a pond (contaminated water with all the grits in it, no problem), a cup, a squirting bottle, a running water, a smaller mister with finer mists, a wet sponge keeping it floating like a boat in a pond, etc.
     
  11. Feb 14, 2019 #11

    dafox

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    The Shapton pro 1000 that I recently bought would not let water soak into it, the water beaded up on the surface until I flattened it with an Atoma 140, then voila, no more beading and it soaked up and held a little water. Must have had a crust, a glaze, on it.
     
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  12. Feb 14, 2019 #12

    Knife2meatu

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    It's the thinnest of hydrophobic layers; you can remove it quite easily just rubbing with fingers. I suspect it is applied purposefully to keep the stones pristine even if they're exposed to high humidity environments for prolonged periods prior to first usage. Although it could also be a mere artifact of their manufacture.
     
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  13. Feb 14, 2019 #13

    never mind

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    Knife2meatu is an amazing screen name. It’s nice to meet you!
     
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  14. Feb 14, 2019 #14

    Midsummer

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    I never had any beading with mine; but I made sure they were flat before I used them. So they were all lightly hit with the diamond plate before use....

     
  15. Feb 14, 2019 #15

    Michi

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    If you use a diamond plate, you'll have plenty of small bits of grit sticking out, which help to break surface tension of the water. If the stone is really smooth and doesn't want to absorb much water anyway, the water droplets will sit on top, held together by surface tension.

    As other people have mentioned, a surfactant (ordinary dishwashing liquid, or any kind of soap, really) will avoid the beading. A single drop in a half litre of water is plenty enough and won't harm the stone.
     
  16. Feb 14, 2019 #16

    Dhoff

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    Contrats on the new purchse. Will you be parting with all your soak stones then?
     
  17. Feb 14, 2019 #17

    big D

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    Makes two things learned about soap.
    Thank you.
    D.
     
  18. Feb 14, 2019 #18

    vicv

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    No problem
     
  19. Feb 14, 2019 #19

    big D

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    Little short on time so no offense since you each took time to reply as individuals about lumping you all together. If this is considered bad form in this forum please do let me know.
    Since flattening and coatings were brought up, I am recalling this mentioned elsewhere when I was researching about different stones. Very likely another factor. I had forgotten all about this.
    Thank you all.
    D.
    P.S. Knife2meatu - enjoy the witty name. well done.
     
  20. Feb 14, 2019 #20

    big D

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    Thank you.
    Not what I expected but they seem very nice. I will more than likely keep my old ones. I can use them for something in very bad shape as is. If I happen across a construction site easy to get to with brickies, I may see if they will cut them for me. Won't be much left after that, but will be more useful.
    D.

    edited for spelling
     
  21. Feb 14, 2019 #21

    inferno

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    When shaptons are new, both glass and pro, they seem hydrophobic. I just usually rub 2 together and then that phenomenon goes away.
     
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  22. Feb 14, 2019 #22

    big D

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    Thank you for the welcome. Nice to meet you also. (along with everyone else) I expected the water to sit on top, so the beading really didn't bother me, though kind of expected it to sit in puddles or little lakes at least. What bothered me was I couldn't keep water on the stone, along with the dry feeling. My other stones are like that if they are not wet enough or the surfaces drys a bit while sharpening. They felt better for a stroke or two then went dry. Actually either way is fine with me as far as sharpening goes, just wondering how they are suppose to work and thanks to everyone's replies I now know what is going on.
    As far as sharpening in the video I did catch that. About 50 years ago when I started I was told to sharpen you cut into the stone., and to finish you drag the edge away from the stone. That was my total schooling on it. I tried using two hands but ended up just using my right hand. Found it more comfortable and I didn't have anyone to tell me I was doing it wrong and anyone I ran across was always thrilled with my edge. In reality I think it doesn't really matter how one does it unless the edge is going to be inspected under a microscope. (kitchen knives I am talking about) Time will tell if I maintain that stance, going to play around a bit. I actually bought these stones because I wanted to see if there is anything to getting something really sharp on a flat stone compared to one which is not. I can say it takes less time on a flat stone. Since I don't know the grit on the old one I may never know. But as I use this more it may come apparent yet. Will see. Now I am really late. Gotttaa runnnn
    thanks
    D.
     
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  23. Feb 14, 2019 #23

    inferno

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    I'd just like to add your selection of stones is pretty much ultimate. I have all of these. Very good selection imo. And ultra fast.
     
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  24. Feb 14, 2019 #24

    M1k3

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    Notice that the first time I used it. Second time it only happened in spots I didn't really use. Lightly lapped it and no more beading.
     
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  25. Feb 14, 2019 #25

    inferno

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    I think its part of the production process. Either way I dont even start using stones without first flattening them or at the very least rub them with another stone. You need to expose fresh grit for stones to work so.
     
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  26. Feb 14, 2019 #26

    never mind

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    This! And FUN!

    Grit consistency, speed, stone hardness and fast reactions during sharpening are a thrill to me! F. U. N!
     
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  27. Feb 15, 2019 #27

    big D

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    I've read a lot about peoples opinions of different stones and a few really stand out. I almost dropped shapton, but it was actually your devotion to them which swayed me to go with them. I do recall you saying that over 4000 you liked the pros more. Was going to ask which one you would suggest, but figured I should just start with the 3 and see where that led me. Was actually only getting the 500 and 1000 but found a deal on the set.
    thanks for dropping in.
    D.
     
  28. Feb 15, 2019 #28

    Midsummer

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    Lumping is not bad form as far as I am concerned.... I would love to hear what other factors you have come up with! Because dismissing others opinions without due consideration is bad form. I would hate to see you get off on the wrong foot here.
     
  29. Feb 15, 2019 #29

    big D

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    It is clear that not enough water was staying on the stone. That is the other factor which I acknowledged to those which said to add more water. Also acknowledged the larger pump in movie, which would have spread a lot more water to begin with. Also the ensuing discussions of soap breaking the waters surface tension allowing it to spread and stay on longer.
    And then of course in the group reply of which you were part of, the factor of new stone surface needing to to be taken or worn off. Everyone has been thanked.
    Thank you for looking after me.
    D.
     
  30. Feb 15, 2019 #30

    inferno

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    Just rub 2 stones together for like 5 seconds with water between them and then they will start holding on to the water.

    I think you're going to like the stones :)
     
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