Sharpening class - London?

[ashfanman]

Hi all. I'm looking to start out with doing my own sharpening. I've read lots of posts and watched hours of YouTube videos, but I'm still pretty nervous about the idea of making mistakes with my knives.

I'm therefore keen to do a beginner's class, to at least teach me the basics and build a bit of confidence before working on my own knives - and hopefully avoid me making any serious errors when I do so!

I've seen a few courses in London at various prices and duration: Knives From Japan (£20 for 60 mins), Kitchen Provisions (£45 for 90 mins), Blenheim Forge (£50 for 90-120 mins), and the Japanese Knife Company (£99 for 120 mins).

Just wondered if anyone has had any experience with the above, or alternative recommendations?

Thanks!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I think if I was serious about going to a class, one of the things I'd really like to know is instructor-to-student ratio. 60mins but with a smaller class and more individual attention may well be much more informative than 120min's with very little.

That said, as long as you aren't getting egregiously bad advice, which I'd doubt, then you'll probably be fine with any of them. This truly isn't that hard to get started. You can get as deep into it as you like but for just kitchen-worthy edges, it just takes a little understanding and practice.

A good, but not expensive carbon knife can help boost confidence.

 

[adrianopedro]

Hi all. I'm looking to start out with doing my own sharpening. I've read lots of posts and watched hours of YouTube videos, but I'm still pretty nervous about the idea of making mistakes with my knives.

I'm therefore keen to do a beginner's class, to at least teach me the basics and build a bit of confidence before working on my own knives - and hopefully avoid me making any serious errors when I do so!

I've seen a few courses in London at various prices and duration: Knives From Japan (£20 for 60 mins), Kitchen Provisions (£45 for 90 mins), Blenheim Forge (£50 for 90-120 mins), and the Japanese Knife Company (£99 for 120 mins).

Just wondered if anyone has had any experience with the above, or alternative recommendations?

Thanks!

Talk to Rodrigo from @togidai.uk

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[ashfanman]

I think if I was serious about going to a class, one of the things I'd really like to know is instructor-to-student ratio. 60mins but with a smaller class and more individual attention may well be much more informative than 120min's with very little.

That said, as long as you aren't getting egregiously bad advice, which I'd doubt, then you'll probably be fine with any of them. This truly isn't that hard to get started. You can get as deep into it as you like but for just kitchen-worthy edges, it just takes a little understanding and practice.

A good, but not expensive carbon knife can help boost confidence.

Blenheim and Kitchen Provisions are both max five per class, which seems okay to me? The other two don't say.

I do have some nice carbon steel knives, but to be honest that's what's making me nervous - the idea of messing them up somehow!

Talk to Rodrigo from @togidai.uk

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I’ve sent them a message. Appreciate the tip.

 

[M1k3]

@cotedupy

 

[Cliff]

I'll second the idea of getting an inexpensive carbon to learn on. If you don't want to scratch up fancy knives, best to get started with something more modest -- just don't get cheap stainless, which is hard to sharpen.

 

[TB_London]

Whereabouts in London are you?

We talked about having a meet up in October, if that goes ahead happy to bring stones and run through with you

 

[ashfanman]

Whereabouts in London are you?

We talked about having a meet up in October, if that goes ahead happy to bring stones and run through with you

Kingston.

 

[Ok__mode_6953]

Of the two I would choose Blenheim or Kitchen Provisions, or we could get that meet up scheduled in and give some pointers then.

 

[Benuser]

I'll second the idea of getting an inexpensive carbon to learn on. If you don't want to scratch up fancy knives, best to get started with something more modest -- just don't get cheap stainless, which is hard to sharpen.

Couldn't agree more. Have a simple, thin carbon blade, e.g. this nail flexing Robert Herder

https://amzn.eu/d/c9N0DUc

Allows to concentrate on the basics without having to start with a painful thinning before.

 

[cotedupy]

FWIW - I teach the sharpening classes at Blenheim Forge. You'd come away from one knowing how to sharpen.

(Fingers crossed! )

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

FWIW - I teach the sharpening classes at Blenheim Forge. You'd come away from one knowing how to sharpen.

(Fingers crossed! )

Look no further!!!

 

[cotedupy]

And also - during the class we start out by practicing on some old BF knives, before moving on to one of your own later. So that people can get a feel for it first, without having to worry about f-ing up something they own.

 

[ashfanman]

FWIW - I teach the sharpening classes at Blenheim Forge. You'd come away from one knowing how to sharpen.

(Fingers crossed! )

Sold!

Couldn't agree more. Have a simple, thin carbon blade, e.g. this nail flexing Robert Herder

https://amzn.eu/d/c9N0DUc

Allows to concentrate on the basics without having to start with a painful thinning before.

That’s a nice idea. That knife doesn’t seem to be available on Amazon UK - does anyone have any suggestions of a good shapening practice knife that I can pick up in the Uk?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Sold!


That’s a nice idea. That knife doesn’t seem to be available on Amazon UK - does anyone have any suggestions of a good shapening practice knife that I can pick up in the Uk?

Is importing from Aus or Japan an issue, financially?

With Knives aka @bsfsu and Knife Japan have good options.

 

[Cliff]

I would add that there really isn't anything you're going to do to a knife in basic sharpening that you cannot undo. You are guaranteed to scratch up the side of the knife until you get the feel for angle control, so it makes sense to start with something utilitarian rather than beautiful. Even then, a little sandpaper will take out those scratches.

 

[ashfanman]

Is importing from Aus or Japan an issue, financially?

With Knives aka @bsfsu and Knife Japan have good options.

Import fees are pretty brutal into the UK now. Some Googling and a few people have suggested Kiwi knives as super cheap practice options, or the Mercer Culinary range...

 

[cotedupy]

Sold!

Nice! Let me know when you're coming along. It's a good class, and you'll come away being able to do all the basics of edge sharpening reasonably well. And then it's just practice obviously!

You were right to wonder about number of people, beyond about 6 students you'd probably have to slightly change the way you teach, and not be able to give as much attention to each person.

I would add that there really isn't anything you're going to do to a knife in basic sharpening that you cannot undo. You are guaranteed to scratch up the side of the knife until you get the feel for angle control, so it makes sense to start with something utilitarian rather than beautiful. Even then, a little sandpaper will take out those scratches.

This point is very valid too I think. Whilst learning normal edge sharpening it's actually almost impossible to screw a knife up in a way that can't be very easily rectified.

 

[Ok__mode_6953]

Import fees are pretty brutal into the UK now. Some Googling and a few people have suggested Kiwi knives as super cheap practice options, or the Mercer Culinary range...

Aus and the UK have a trade deal agreed as of a few months ago - there should be no import or customs fees to pay between both countries now.

Whilst learning normal edge sharpening it's actually almost impossible to screw a knife up in a way that can't be very easily rectified.

Part of the fun of learning to sharpen is getting it wrong at first, and then being able to fix all of your minor mistakes once you get better!

 

[Benuser]

Sold!


That’s a nice idea. That knife doesn’t seem to be available on Amazon UK - does anyone have any suggestions of a good shapening practice knife that I can pick up in the Uk?

Not in the UK. You don't pay German VAT, but the UK VAT and probably handling fees.

Windmühlenmesser Allzweckmesser

Windmühlenmesser Allzweckmesser Petty

www.messer-holdorf.de

 

[TB_London]

Best sharpening aid is a black sharpie or other waterproof marker. Colour the bevel then take a swipe on the stone and have a look- the black ink makes it much easier to see where you’re hitting

 

[Benuser]

Best sharpening aid is a black sharpie or other waterproof marker. Colour the bevel then take a swipe on the stone and have a look- the black ink makes it much easier to see where you’re hitting

I prefer a red marker. And more seriously: use a loupe with it. Helpful with unknown knives. May disclose a microbevel.

 

[ModRQC]

Man I can sharpen pretty well but I'd still pay for the class if it was @cotedupy teaching. Promises to be interesting, I'd sure learn a few things. Guy is a voodoo.

 

[Leo Barr]

Hi all. I'm looking to start out with doing my own sharpening. I've read lots of posts and watched hours of YouTube videos, but I'm still pretty nervous about the idea of making mistakes with my knives.

I'm therefore keen to do a beginner's class, to at least teach me the basics and build a bit of confidence before working on my own knives - and hopefully avoid me making any serious errors when I do so!

I've seen a few courses in London at various prices and duration: Knives From Japan (£20 for 60 mins), Kitchen Provisions (£45 for 90 mins), Blenheim Forge (£50 for 90-120 mins), and the Japanese Knife Company (£99 for 120 mins).

Just wondered if anyone has had any experience with the above, or alternative recommendations?

Thanks!

I would suggest watching Murray Carter’s Blade Sharpening Fundamentals
Buy some cheap knives.
Buy something around 400 grit & maybe a 1000grit.
Then start of sharpening of course you will make mistakes that how you learn.
I believe that you can only learn about 5% from someone and the rest is experience through making mistakes.
The problem with lessons or reading too much is that it stops discovery & makes you think there are set ways of doing it if you stick by this you will limit your own progression It also has to work for you physically.
It requires observation and un understanding of what is necessary to creat an edge so look at a brand new knife to understand what makes a sharp edge then work to copy or improve on that.
When man began to fly he didn’t have lessons .
Be critical with your results & make every sharpening session a learning session the reality is that if you are doing it the right way then you will be learning on every knife until you die.
Your money would be best spent on a couple of stones & maybe a couple of Victorinox knives rather than paying for lessons.
I would never teach anyone since my methods are constantly changing and I think this is how it should be.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I would suggest watching Murray Carter’s Blade Sharpening Fundamentals
Buy some cheap knives.
Buy something around 400 grit & maybe a 1000grit.
Then start of sharpening of course you will make mistakes that how you learn.
I believe that you can only learn about 5% from someone and the rest is experience through making mistakes.
The problem with lessons or reading too much is that it stops discovery & makes you think there are set ways of doing it if you stick by this you will limit your own progression It also has to work for you physically.
It requires observation and un understanding of what is necessary to creat an edge so look at a brand new knife to understand what makes a sharp edge then work to copy or improve on that.
When man began to fly he didn’t have lessons .
Be critical with your results & make every sharpening session a learning session the reality is that if you are doing it the right way then you will be learning on every knife until you die.
Your money would be best spent on a couple of stones & maybe a couple of Victorinox knives rather than paying for lessons.
I would never teach anyone since my methods are constantly changing and I think this is how it should be.

Just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone else. Some people learn very well through demonstration and having an "authority" guide you can inspire confidence and that can be highly valuable.

A lot of people got hurt and died while we learned to fly. And once the Wrights figured it out, people mimicked their work and just built on it. They didn't just start from scratch all over.

No question understanding the why is important to the how but I suspect a decent instructor will teach those fundamentals before steel ever touches stone.

I disagree with the inference that the lesson is a waste and the money should be spent on gear. Gear is easy to come by. Receiving instruction from @cotedupy is extremely valuable.

 

[Cliff]

While there is no substitute for hands on practice, learning sharpening, like just about any other skill, from an experienced teacher will speed up the process. While I love Victorinox knives, I do not think they are good knives to learn to sharpen.

 

[ModRQC]

I agree. Buying Victos to learn to sharpen is counterproductive. Cheap Carbon alternatives have already been pointed out.

However I did my very first go on a stone with a Victo. The particular one being one I was willing to sacrifice that way. It did help a lot with getting through a very first try, and getting down the basic feel and the basic moves and maintaining an angle and repeating enough to at least have that steady hold onto it. I even helped the knife a bit, although looking back, it wasn't anything I'd call a success. You don't need to buy anything for that usually. There's certainly a knife somewhere around that you can use to just rub on a stone and try to get the basic vibe down. It doesn't need to be a Victo or good steel much, even.

I certainly won't suggest not to take a class with @cotedupy. As I said, I'd pay for it even where I do not fundamentally need it, especially the levels of basics he's bound to teach there. However I guess I could use him for a brief head to head and for any tips and technique corrections he might bring me. Otherwise it would just be a cool thing to participate into.

Still one COULD save those few bucks and learn from the internet. Most of us here do just that. But there is a minimal entry fee to be doing that: it takes a knife that's no PITA for long term practice, and it takes stones. That's more expensive than a class. The basics of a knife not to care about, and stones at hand, are also covered in the class. Of course you won't leave with them, but one might still consider that straight return on the investment. Coming out of there not only you get a hold on how to do it, but also some experience with a couple stones I guess. So you're much more confident in buying stones, and know firsthand a bit better what (kind of) stone you need to buy, you saw that it worked and could give the wanted results, and you're probably ready to practice on your better knives, skipping on any practice knife investment.

 

[mozg31337]

Whereabouts in London are you?

We talked about having a meet up in October, if that goes ahead happy to bring stones and run through with you

Would love to learn more about the meetup! I don't live far from London and would love to meet other knife geeks!

 

[ashfanman]

Just because something works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone else. Some people learn very well through demonstration and having an "authority" guide you can inspire confidence and that can be highly valuable.

A lot of people got hurt and died while we learned to fly. And once the Wrights figured it out, people mimicked their work and just built on it. They didn't just start from scratch all over.

No question understanding the why is important to the how but I suspect a decent instructor will teach those fundamentals before steel ever touches stone.

I disagree with the inference that the lesson is a waste and the money should be spent on gear. Gear is easy to come by. Receiving instruction from @cotedupy is extremely valuable.

Yeah, this definitely applies to me. I've already watched lots of videos on YouTube (though not Murray Carter’s Blade Sharpening Fundamentals - thanks for the tip Leo Barr), but I definitely find I learn things better in-person and with an instructor that can provide feedback and answer questions. The class is relatively inexpensive (£50), which to me is definitely money well spent.

Still looking at options for a knife to practice on. Really don't want to spend too much, as that would defeat the point, and I'd ideally like to get a knife of a type that I don't already have (gyuto, nakiri, santoku, petty), if possible, so that it can also be useful to me as a knife, rather than just being something to practice sharpening on.

Quite a few people on Reddit have suggested Kiwi knives - any thoughts? They're certainly super cheap - less than £10 for most. Would a bone cleaver be an absolutely ridiculous choice to practice sharpening on? www.chopchopchop.co.uk%2F6-inch-cleaver-knife-wood-handle

 

[Nemo]

Don't learn on a Kiwi, the steel is too soft.

Get a decent carbon steel knife. You will get results (and therefore feedback on your technique) more quickly.

Robert Herder is often suggested, although I haven’t ever handled (let alone sharpened) one.

There are plenty of decent value Japanese carbon blades for perhaps a few more GBPs. Fujiwarra Kanefusa FKM, Misono Swedish, Shiro Kamo Ku (blue2 or AS) are some that come quickly to mind.