Sharpening help!

[Blank Blades.]

Idk why using it dry is preferable, as opposed to clean and oiled/wet. Is it so that they can easily brush off the stone and not have to worry about adding more oil? With waterstones, just clean it off and use it wet.

I’d also be more worried about stone particles than metal. Although it’s true that that’s less of an issue if you’re using a super hard stone.

Yeah. I wouldn't sharpen dry. at least not with waterstones. Just with a completely clean surface.

I definitely agree. The abrasive particles are much harder than steel, I would be more worried about those rounding the apex than steel particles. Though neither is ideal when finishing.

Idk if it is a generalization though. Are there cases where 3 body abrasion is specifically going to get a finer apex? If the finest apex possible is the goal. Then I would say a clean stone will be the absolutely most effective way to get that result.

Now, that's not saying you have to finish every blade, in every situation, with a clean stone. If the goal is to not have as aggressively fine apex as the final product. I could see an arguement not to clean the stone at the end. Saying you must finish that way may be a generalization, but that leading to the finest apex isn't

 

[Blank Blades.]

No slurry finishing using synthetic stones is really the best way to use these stones, unless you are just polishing the secondary bevel.
If you use natural stones like JNAT's, finishing with slurry might actually give a better edge.
Under magnification you can see that a synthetic slurry almost erode away the apex of your edge, giving you a more rounded and less durable edge. The same does not happen with some natural stones because the slurry brakes down and cuts differently.
In Japan some knife sharpeners use natural nagura stones on suitable synthetic stones. It actually works really well with some stones.

I can't agree or disagree with you on the natural stone thing. What I can say is people that hone razors on Japanese natural stones, generally finish with just plane water, and a very light touch after doing slurry progressions. So I think the 3 body abrasion problem can occur with those too. Just to a lesser extent.

From my experience I can say I've been able to get the absolutely best edge from my hardest japanese natural (a very hard uchigumori that doesn't give up slurry easily) with no slurry. However my experience doesn't equate to scientific evidence or anything. So take it for what you will.

 

[Benuser]

With synthetic stones who start aggressive but get finer during the sharpening process, there is a problem when deburring. In this last stage you want a clean surface, without swarf, but not so much the initial aggressiveness, as you're likely to not just abrade a burr, but create a new one. A nagura can be helpful to break down the particles. I've used a Blue Belgian as a nagura with a Chosera 2k, only for deburring.

 

[JPO]

I can't agree or disagree with you on the natural stone thing. What I can say is people that hone razors on Japanese natural stones, generally finish with just plane water, and a very light touch after doing slurry progressions. So I think the 3 body abrasion problem can occur with those too. Just to a lesser extent.

From my experience I can say I've been able to get the absolutely best edge from my hardest japanese natural (a very hard uchigumori that doesn't give up slurry easily) with no slurry. However my experience doesn't equate to scientific evidence or anything. So take it for what you will.

Water finishing on JNAT's is really stone dependent, especially if you hone razors. I have a Nakayama Kiita Lv 5 that finishes really well with water or a light slurry. My Shobudani is much harder. This stone grabs the edge much more, so it needs a little trace slurry to keep the steel from sticking to the stone to much. This stone is really what i would call a razor grade hard stone. For razor sharpening we are dealing with a really fragile edge. Too much suction at the finishing stage can be detrimental to edge. I would rather use a hard Arkasas stone if i am honing knifes on a stone that is this hard. This stone also grabs the steel a little, but in a more predictable way. They are really unforgiving if your angle is off, but is one of few stones that seems to burnish and cut at the same time.