Sharpening Stone Recommendations

[Echotraveler]

Hello guys, FIRST POST!

Id like to try different stones, and i'de like to learn the differences between, for example a king 1000, and any X Brand 1000 stone. Ive always thought any 250, 1000, 6000 should do the trick regardless of brand.

Now, im doubting this simplistic approach and am sure some of you guys can help, with suggestions to achive better results and a more enjoyable sharpening session.

For me its a very important pride issue, to work with well maintained equipment, that goes for the entire kitchen. Sharpening is a meditation moment, specially after work...i can be pretty beat up, but ive caught myself just listening and counting strokes...

Currenly I use:

-Cheap 250/1000 reprofiling,thining, fixing tips with side, and flattening other stones. This stone is my biggest concern, as believe i bought it like 10 years ago, from a Chinese market, so dubious reputation.

-King 1000/6000 got at a knife store, as i was looking for a finishing and maintenance stone.

Now i hear all about wet and go glass stones...and all of the sudden people have many 1000k stones and maybe my stone is a razor sharpening stone... i just wonder whats up?, i can get sharp, but maybe i can get sharper...


Plz suggest a nice setup, not extremely expensive. I own a few knifes, not extremely expensive, but still excellent knifes:

Togiharu Gyutou G-1 Molybdenum (right hand)
Aritsugu Tokyo S Gyutou Superalloy (left hand double bevel)
Aritsugu Tokyo S Petty Superalloy (left hand single bevel)
Anryu Nakiri Blues Steel 2 (right handed lazer)
Tojiro Color Sujihiki Stainless (right handed) - impulsive closeout buy, not used much
Also some nameless Japanese Paring.

Thnxs guys

 

[daveb]

Welcome. First let me assure you that most of the difference in sharpening is in the carpenter, not the hammer.... There are lousy stones out there but for the most part there a lot of good types, brands, grits, ietc. And then there's subjective preferences.

For example I don't like King at all. Dish too fast, too much orange mud down the drain, and nothing to commend them but cheap. But there's a bunch of them out there helping a lot of folks keep a lot of knives sharp. I prefer the feeling of soaking stones but appreciate the convenience of splash and go for "get er done" work.. I would use nothing but naturals if they would get knives sharp instead of just feeling good. And my vehicle is and will be Toyota.

All subjective preference and if you play this game you'll develop your own. To get a head start think about if you want to go with soakers or with splash and go and understand the difference. And think about how much you want to spend - King is at one end of the pricing spectrum - the other end is seriously stupid.

 

[Echotraveler]

Welcome. First let me assure you that most of the difference in sharpening is in the carpenter, not the hammer.... There are lousy stones out there but for the most part there a lot of good types, brands, grits, ietc. And then there's subjective preferences.

For example I don't like King at all. Dish too fast, too much orange mud down the drain, and nothing to commend them but cheap. But there's a bunch of them out there helping a lot of folks keep a lot of knives sharp. I prefer the feeling of soaking stones but appreciate the convenience of splash and go for "get er done" work.. I would use nothing but naturals if they would get knives sharp instead of just feeling good. And my vehicle is and will be Toyota.

All subjective preference and if you play this game you'll develop your own. To get a head start think about if you want to go with soakers or with splash and go and understand the difference. And think about how much you want to spend - King is at one end of the pricing spectrum - the other end is seriously stupid.

thanx for the reply, mostly i just want to get the sharpest knife with the least amount of loss. Thinking

Rough splash and go stone, like a 500 splash and go, read about sharpton glass 500 hr

Natural 800 or 1000? unsure, have read about the naniwa 800, but am unsure of correct usages for 800 vs 1000, is it the same?

A 3000? or jump to finishing? or is a 3000 a finishing?

 

[Benuser]

The Naniwa Pro 800 is fast, very versatile, and leaves a JIS 1200 end result. The Naniwa Pro 3k leaves a 4k-edge. Both offer a lot of tactile feedback, are relatively hard and fast and don't dish a lot. In Western cuisine, with double-bevelled blades, I wouldn't know why one should go beyond 4k.

 

[Benuser]

If used after a coarse stone, the 800 will be faster than the 1k.

 

[Nemo]

Lots of people love the Pro/Chosera 800. I have the 1k but not the 800 (I bought it as part of a set). It performs perfectly well in this role. It's also a very good stone. If I were buying it alone, I would probably get the 800 but the 1k is fine in this role. Don't sweat the decision between these too much.

 

[SilverSwarfer]

As for synthetics, and based on my experience and preferences-

I love the Gesshin stone set at Japanese Knife Imports. You get a 400, 2k, and 6k for $210. Add on a Kitayama 8k (can be had <$60 if you look) for mirror polishing and that gets me through all purposes and types. For utility this setup is completely sufficient for me in my purposes.

The 2k Gesshin might just change your whole outlook on sharpening if your experience is limited to least expensive coarse offerings or equivalents of King combo. These less expensive offerings are effective! But they’re less effective and enjoyable than many available offerings.

If you were conveniently located, I’d really enjoy loaning you a couple stones, to hear your thoughts on the experience as compared to what’s normal for you. I do believe that there is a BIG difference between what’s available out there.

In addition I also really enjoy a Gesshin 4k for general maintenance of single bevels. Easy to redevelop edges without removing a lot of material.

The Gesshin stones are generally expensive. If you get the set, you get a bargain. I attest they are worth the comparatively high price. They are all effective and they all provide good feedback and performance overall. They seem well-designed and will last long enough to completely justify the cost.

I also think highly of Chosera offerings. But be careful and try to aim for models that come mounted to a base. The 800 and 3k are particularly decent.

My take on soakers vs splash-go is quite simply a preference of maintenance issue. For me, performance trumps all.

If you really enjoy the meditative aspect of sharpening, JNATs provide the supreme experience. This forum is an excellent resource to educate yourself and even procure some starter stones. But be warned: it’s an expensive and never-ending pursuit. Synthetics are faster but JNATs provide an edge and sharpening experience beyond comparison.

 

[Echotraveler]

I wonder, can you guys point me towards sharpening information, like theory, general stone talk?

for example i do 250/ 1000/6000...


But i also see 400/2000/6000, and other combinations....what are the guidelines?

 

[SeattleBen]

As far as I can tell it's just a matter of preference.

The 400/2k/6k being quoted are the Gesshin stones from Japanese Knife Imports which are really popular around here especially if you like a soaking stone.

I wonder, can you guys point me towards sharpening information, like theory, general stone talk?

for example i do 250/ 1000/6000...


But i also see 400/2000/6000, and other combinations....what are the guidelines?

 

[inferno]

Plz suggest a nice setup, not extremely expensive. I own a few knifes, not extremely expensive, but still excellent knifes:

shapton pro 1k, and glass 4k if youre not into restoring other peoples knives.

and if you are: glass 500, glass or pro2k, glass 4k

or on the cheap glass 500 and 3k.

also get a diamond plate.

 

[inferno]

The glass and pro stones are no nonsense stones. just pure power. they will do anything from soft carbon to ultrahard hss and powder ss. splash and go. dries in 10 minutes or so. they are also quite cheap. for the lower grits I would go pro and for the higher ones get glass. lower = 220-2k pro.

I also think that 6k is generally overkill and overused for even carbon steels. sure white and blue can take a 6-12k edge but how much better is it really than a 4k edge? not very much if you ask me. i think very sharp starts at 4k and scary sharp at 12k.

but since you mostly have stainless knives i think maybe a 3-4k will be your upper level you want to operate on. since these steels cant hold on to anything finer pretty much so its just a waste of time.

Many people argue 2k is the upper level of stainless (and some even say 1k is the limit). I think its glass 3k myself. and 4k for the common powder steels.

 

[inferno]

I wonder, can you guys point me towards sharpening information, like theory, general stone talk?

for example i do 250/ 1000/6000...


But i also see 400/2000/6000, and other combinations....what are the guidelines?

I'd say it works like this:
depending on what steel you are sharpening you want a different finishing stone. for me blue2 would be 6k and aus8 or vg-10 maybe 3k. and then you work your way down.

for SS i'd want a 3k, a 1k and then maybe a 500 or even 220 if doing chipped knives. To be honest the 1k can be deleted. a 500 and a 3k would do nice.

for blue/white carbon I'd get a 4-6k a 2k and a 500 or 1k. a 6k will be wasted if you dont know what youre doing; then a 4k will be better imo.

So i'd say it depends on what you want to do with what steel pretty much.

many people report they can go from a 1 directly to a 6k. and I'm sure they can. but do you want a 6k edge on a SS knife??

I can take a knife from a 1k stone to a 12k it just takes 3-4 minutes more or so compared to if i had one or 2 in between.
if you have a fast 12 that is.

 

[Knife2meatu]

@inferno : It seems to me like a stretch to call the Glass Stones "quite cheap". They're priced roughly equivalently to other similar grit stones which are often 3 to 6 times thicker. I know the Glass Stones are said to be slow wearing and fast cutting, but is it really your experience they possess these qualities in such abundance as to offset so large disparities in size?

 

[inferno]

I have the 220 in glass and pro.
the 1k in glass and pro
the 2k in glass and pro

and I'd say with the 220 the pro will outlast the glass if you glue it to something so you can use up the whole stone. since it will crack at 5mm or so. I think the pro will outlast the glass in money by maybe 30-40% at most when its all done.

but the glass 220 is much faster than the 220 pro, and it dishes slower. so in reality its much better stone for the user.

------------

the 1ks: the glass 1k will wear slower than the pro.
the 2k too. but the pro 2k is already a very slow wearing stone.

------------

in my country the pro and glass stones cost the same!

basically 60€ for both a glass and pro 1k.
and the 2ks are similar too i guess.
the 220ies too.
-------------------

the glass stones are better stones. they are faster in general and wear slower, and feel better. many users will not even wear away 1mm of their stones in their lifetime. so i think these are better for casual users. in general.

also the glass stones can be had in gray versions where they polish more at the cost of cutting speed, I'd say you lose 40-50% speed for this. and they feel very nice! yet still ultra fast stones.

time is money. so yeah i think glass stones are cheap. considering many aspects.
I know pro stones are cheaper in some coutries. but I still think the glass are the better stones. Might not be the most economical ones in initial purchase but if you value you time i'd say so. then they are quite cheap. and we are talking like 10€ more per stone. thats quite cheap imo for that step up.

sory for getting deep. i dont work for shapton.

 

[never mind]

Things we do for love.

sory for getting deep. i dont work for shapton.

 

[SilverSwarfer]

Anybody able to compare same grit Glass vs. Gesshin?

 

[rickbern]

I wonder, can you guys point me towards sharpening information, like theory, general stone talk?

for example i do 250/ 1000/6000...


But i also see 400/2000/6000, and other combinations....what are the guidelines?

Echo-The difference between a 250 and a 400 is pretty huge. Don't let the numbers throw you off.

I like to think theres four levels of stones--Grinding, Coarse, Medium and Fine.

Think of your 250 as a "grinding" stone. It really has no place in a sharpening progression. It's mostly useful for removing thickness from the blade face or MAJOR repairs. Put it away for a couple of months.

A 400 on the other hand is a good beginning sharpening stone when your edges really needs work, maybe there's chips or some such or the tip is a little mangled. It's in the range of coarse that goes from about 300 up to somewhere in the 6-800 range. (trust me, there's a JNS 300 that's just much more refined than the 250 you're using-big difference in usage, but only a small number).

Medium stones are the general starting point if your edge is basically okay. They range from 800-2000. I use a gesshin 2000 in this range and I think it's a really good choice, lots of others do too.

Fine stones are generally from 3000-8000.

You only need one in each range, and a lot of good advice says it's best to start with a medium and a fine stone, then buy a coarse (and grinding if you need it) stone after you know what you're doing.

Hope this helps clarify

Rick

 

[Echotraveler]

WOW guys THNX!!!!!

INFERNO i will look into this matters!! thnx for all the great feedback! im gonna read it all again.

Rickbern thnx for the advice, i will remove the grinder, unless its for thinning or extreme reprofile

 

[Echotraveler]

also get a diamond plate.

what for?

 

[Nemo]

what for?

To flatten your stones.

 

[Echotraveler]

so guys ive narrowed it down.

Im going to get 3 shapton glass, im still a bit confused with my finishing stone choice.

500/2000/

Im trying to decide between 4000,8000,16000

My main concern is getting a Carbon Steel Aritsugu chef knife extra sharp. I asked them what steel i got on their S model...they said its made of Gokinko (super alloy).

 

[Ivan Hersh]

so guys ive narrowed it down.

Im going to get 3 shapton glass, im still a bit confused with my finishing stone choice.

500/2000/

Im trying to decide between 4000,8000,16000

My main concern is getting a Carbon Steel Aritsugu chef knife extra sharp. I asked them what steel i got on their S model...they said its made of Gokinko (super alloy).

This chart will give you an idea about the Gokinko steel in knife blade.
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/gokinko.shtml

 

[Echotraveler]

thanx for sharing this information! so this gokinko carbon steel is more like stainless??

 

[stringer]

so guys ive narrowed it down.

Im going to get 3 shapton glass, im still a bit confused with my finishing stone choice.

500/2000/

Im trying to decide between 4000,8000,16000

My main concern is getting a Carbon Steel Aritsugu chef knife extra sharp. I asked them what steel i got on their S model...they said its made of Gokinko (super alloy).

I own all of those stones except the 16k. You probably don't need it unless you're honing razors. As far as choosing between the 8 and 4, it depends on what kind of edge you are looking for. The 4 is where I like to take my work knives and then I really just do a few strops on the 8 to refine the very apex and remove any tiny hint of a burr. If I had to pick one, I would go with the 4k.

 

[Ivan Hersh]

thanx for sharing this information! so this gokinko carbon steel is more like stainless??

Yes a hard type steel what i find to work well on my stainless steel blades is if it's really dull i start with an 800 grit, if fairly sharp i start with a 2000 grit and finish with my 6000 or 8000 grit, then a good stropping.
Not implying it's the best but it's my way today.

 

[inferno]

This chart will give you an idea about the Gokinko steel in knife blade.
http://zknives.com/knives/steels/gokinko.shtml

that gokinko looks like a pretty bad ass steel there. its a high cr cromo tool steel pretty much with small amounts of grain refiners and carbide formers. I'm guessing its slightly below cpm-3v in toughness, maybe half or 2/3. and a lot lower abrasive wear resistance. adhesive should be higher than all those high cr high v steels, and all SS. I'm thinking this might be the secret "carbonext" steel from jck. who knows?

Looks cheap enough to sell and process cheaply. probably easy to get a very good HT on too.

 

[inferno]

so guys ive narrowed it down.

Im going to get 3 shapton glass, im still a bit confused with my finishing stone choice.

500/2000/

Im trying to decide between 4000,8000,16000

My main concern is getting a Carbon Steel Aritsugu chef knife extra sharp. I asked them what steel i got on their S model...they said its made of Gokinko (super alloy).

i currently have shapton pro 220, 1k, 2k, 8k, 12k.
glass 220, 500 double thick, 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k, 6k hc (gray color), and i have borrowed the 8k hc too to do an 8k shootout. the 8k pro is a better feeling stone, and faster.

I think you should get the 500, 3k and the 6k gray or white.
the 500 for the heavy lifting (get the double thick),
the 3k for a SS finisher,
the 6k for carbon and tool steel like the gokinko you have.

and if you are getting an 8k I would simply the get the cheapest one of the gray hc/hr/pro (or the one that is available). I think 8k is quite overkill though, while 6k is not.

 

[Echotraveler]

im glad you guys are here.

this is great info on Aritsugu and Sharpening this beautiful knifes.

Ill get the e 500, 3000, 6000k. great advise

 

[Echotraveler]

any suggestions on a cheap diamond flattening stone, im going thru amazon...which limits a lot my choices,

but the entire stone set and stand are running for $220, which is more than i wanted, but i know is worth it so im just gonna do it.

 

[SeattleBen]

Depending on how often you’re using the higher grit ones you could try the sidewalk on the 509 and use the 500 on the higher ones. Or spend 60 something on the atoma.