Shi.Han rehandle: advice and noob 1st time

[ModRQC]

Received Shehan's mora handle just now. He made it for me to meet a query about rebalancing my 210mm KU 52100.

As he promised, he made it on the bulky side, so that I could at worst sand it down to preference, but putting the most weight on it to be sure I would meet expectations of balance. Nicely done too - brutal tapering from a big butt to fine neck, very wise of him to work it that way. It's not overkill even there, feels pretty great in hand, so if it rebalances the knife to my satisfaction, I probably won't sand it down at all.

He also was nice enough to prepare the insert. No promise there that it fits, but a lot less difficulty in reworking it to fit for me.

4 questions:

- what best rasp size/tools that will allow me to enlarge, but also possibly deepen, the hole?

- if I want to go melted glue route, is there a quality stick I should buy, or any hot glue stick is good enough?

- what is the best way to remove my actual handle? Anyone knows what Shehan typically uses, wax glue or epoxy?

- best way to work with hot glue is cutting it to small pellets, filling the hole, heating the tang, and burn-fit it in?

Thanks!

 

[ModRQC]

 

[esoo]

When I just reattached the stock handle to the HD2, I filled the handle with shards of dual temp hot glue, put the handle standing on end and the blade in a 190F oven for 10 minutes and then simply pushed the knife into the handle. You will want to mask off around the hole.

 

[ModRQC]

Thanks, that could work.

To remove handles I often see oven mentioned. Seems to work on all kind of bonding. 190F is considered enough to achieve that?

 

[esoo]

When I removed the handle I use 170F. The glue was definitely firmer and harder to release. At 190F, it was quite soft.

 

[ModRQC]

About 10 minutes should work the same to remove then.

 

[childermass]

If it is attached using epoxy 190F won't get you far. But you can surely try it without doing any harm. If the handle won't come off after 15' in the oven at that temperature then it won't come off later. In that case there is no non-destructive method of removing it I would know off.

Reattaching is easy. To widen the hole I use a set of needle rasps that take of lots of material or a self built hole saw for very heavy stuff. For making the hole deeper I use an extra long drill bit in the desired diameter ( I have several of them). But the good thing is that most of the tang holes are plenty long anyway so that usually is not an issue, I hope that's true for your case as well, I always feel bad drilling deeper into a handle.

I use standard hot glue, the cheap stuff, and it works well, just fill the cavity with small pieces and push in the hot tang. Masking is not really essential as the hot glue won't adhere to the metal alone when cold but it can help with orientation on how far to push the handle on.

 

[ModRQC]

Any contradicting opinion about removability of epoxied handles?

I was hoping to save that one.

In WCS what’s the best destructive way?

 

[childermass]

I think some people have boiled handles glued with epoxy until they come loose but I think most woods will be severely damaged in this process so this doesn't qualify as non destructive in my head but worth a try as well.

I have sawed off handles using a common metal saw, just make sure you don't cut into the tang. You can do one or two cuts and pry the rest off, just use your feeling, you will know if it's destabilized enough or not. A chisel should work too.

 

[AT5760]

I’ve removed handles by wrapping the handle in a plastic bag and taping it shut, then setting it in a pot of boiling water for a while. Followed up with a hammer and 2x4. Repeated a couple of times and the old (cheap) handles came off without damage.

On using hot (aka melt) glue, search for James of KNS video. It’s a great tutorial on installing with hot glue.

 

[ModRQC]

You guys are awesome, thanks for the feedback! For those curious (to see me fail) I’ll post progression here.

Of course y’all just want to see the final knife porn.

 

[JoBone]

1) Deepening holes can be difficult with a rasp, but easier with a long drill bit - you can search for pen drill bits
2) these are $9 rasps from Amazon that I use all the time for my handles - Fatmingo 5x180mm Mini Assorted Wood Rasp File
3) for hot glue insert, I heat the tang with a butane torch, guess a gas stove would also work
4) i chisel epoxy handles off. For hot glued use a heat gun, point the handle up so the heat doesn’t travel to the knife, maybe a hair dryer will be hot enough.

 

[ModRQC]

Obligatory pics...

The handle... aaaaah... proves difficult to remove in the end... it’s naked boiling right now as a third trial. Oven and wrapped boiling didn’t do it, so yeah in the process of destroying the thing.

 

[ModRQC]

Apart draining any residual oil/sealant from the handle, naked boiling didn’t have anything moved nor even damaged. Here’s to hoping the soon to be dried out wood will crack open easily. Operation will be continued when I’m off this Thursday.

 

[SeattleB]

If you're going to destroy the handle, just use a fine saw like a japanese pull saw. Tape off the blade or wrap with thin metal to protect it. Make one cut lengthwise on each side of the handle then a screwdriver or chisel in the saw kerf to wedge it off.

I just installed my first handle after seeing the various forum and you tube advice. I used a torch to heat the tang for the hot melt glue. I was concerned that the tang would lose heat too quickly as it migrated to the blade, so first I put the lower part of the blade and tang into a pot of boiling water. This gets it nearly hot enough to melt the glue. Hot melt glues vary but somewhere in the mid 200s Fahrenheit is the target. Putting the tang in boiling water first brings enough heat to the blade that I got plenty of working time to make sure the handle was straight and exactly where I wanted it. Then I used the torch only to bump up the temp on the tang a bit.

I wasn't sure how to figure out how many little pieces of glue chips to put inside the handle. Then I realized it's not actually necessary for the handle to be full of glue. The handle merely needs to be supported by glue at the tail end and near the ferrule. Once the metal was heated and ready, the first thing I did was put a few glue chips on the tang about a cm down from the where the ferrule would meet the neck, and let them melt. Then I slid the tang into the handle. This made sure there was glue contact all around the tang at the ferrule end. It was easier than I expected.

I used a little clear silicone sealant to make sure the metal/ferrule gap was sealed.

 

[ModRQC]

Finally the handle was pried apart - and ruined altogether.

Didn't have much time, but fine tuning the insert as it is. Almost there but still some work to do.

No hurry - should take the chance to refinish the blade a bit. It went through another bit of thinning while I was there.

Then probably will have to sand a good deal of that new handle. Right now balance is where I wanted it, but it results however in the weight seemingly "congesting" at the choil and isn't very nice this way - so will push that balance forward again a bit. Probably will have to remove 10g or so, but that handle butt is so big that it's appropriated to thin it down anyway.

Blade alone is 163g. The Ho handle as ballpark predicted by some members here was 31g. Will add some pics when I can.

 

[ModRQC]

Before - think that was the Suehiro Ouka finish on the blade when I took this picture:

Rehandling is now complete and comes with a surprise.

Yup... it was the only way.

Right now balance is where I wanted it, but it results however in the weight seemingly "congesting" at the choil and isn't very nice this way - so will push that balance forward again a bit.

First idea was to sand the handle down a good deal, but more I thought about it, less it seemed that it would work well. First, I remembered that thinning my former Ittetsu handle and rounding it some had shed a total of barely 6g of wood. That had been quite some bulk I had taken down. And 6 grams less in the Shi.Han case wouldn't do much to help, and there was a point where I wouldn't want to reduce it further. Also, while alleviating congestion, it would push the balance forward again - possibly too much.

Luckily, while when I fitted the tang in the handle spine at one side, it went down full...

When I fitted it with the spine the other side, it still would wedge before going in full - with about this result we've seen, though I honed it down some more. And at one point I started to study that possibility.

Realized that it fitted the knife to me like a glove. For sure, and most importantly, the balance was brought back to the perfect point, matching my natural pinch.

But I also had plenty of space to grab at the neck. I had none of that congesting and discomfort I felt when the tang was fully in... Weight was just a tad forward my pinch, my middle finger counterbalancing at the neck could nestle cozily, and I was in full control of the full length of the blade.

It felt like a new, longer knife, but at the same time felt oddly the same than originally. I realized that originally I had the habit to choke pinch the blade perhaps 10-15mm more forward than I would normally do, to compensate the forward balance, and that left me that plenty of space for finger placement. Also, that because I was holding it more forward, I could originally feel the handle making contact with my forearm when I flexed my wrist - and it still does. The latter does nothing for cutting food, but it felt very familiar. The Shi.Han being by far my favorite knife, single handedly deciding me to sell most of those I had accumulated until then, I also realized how important the small details of handling and presence are very important when it comes down to a knife you just loved naturally since first cut.

So I decided I would make with the fact that it wasn't so pleasing aesthetically, because it sure was damn sexy when in my hand. I glued it this way. My biggest mistake is not using enough glue. I thought I was smart, waiting for the first fill of pellets to melt down to top it again with some more pellets and send it back to heat. Should have done that one or two times more, methinks now. It didn't fill the hole to the rim. I'll have to fill and seal the gap.

 

[ModRQC]

Of course, while without a handle the Shi.Han has seen some work. It was seriously thinned again with Pride 220, but it also saw a lot of test polishings with various stones - the last in line, SP5K, didn't leave nothing nice to live on with.

Some dirty sandpaper job thus camouflaged the worst of the uneven pattern and scratches. This blade has got some overgrinds, especially cutting side, so it doesn't look so nice even with a good polishing job, you can only see scratches where the OGs are, but no real polishing occurs yet. Far up the edge so it's not a problem at all, will disappear as the knife is maintained. I cannot be bothered to spend more than 5 minutes refinishing with sandpaper anymore. Soon to be covered with that gorgeous patina of 52100 anyhow.

Resharpening was a progression SP1K - Rika - SP5K. Thick bevel, spine was some 7mm up the stone, meaning about 6-8* per side, some more lower than my usual 10-13*, and I still struggle with such low angles for sharpening, so it took time and efforts, and the bevel is not perfectly symmetric from side to side, but enough still. Worth the extra pain, steel is though, edge is super keen, geometry is beefy. Makes for a stupidly good cutter.

I dulled the last of the heel upsweep flat to the choil to prevent my new use of more of the heel zone to have the knife rock backwards too much - which it naturally wants to do with the original upsweep.

This puts a stopper to rocking backward, leaving just enough so to keep fluid.

It sorts of mess up the pinnacle of the choil shot though. Well... it's thin. Really really thin, now.

Shots of my grind:

I'll maybe post some glamour pics one of these days when the handle will have been restored to good looks and the hole sealed. I'm being busy with other things - among which, grabbing this knife for a prep whenever I can.