Shig. Kasumi DIY

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Forty Ounce

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I’ve been thinking how to do this so that I can provide a visual. My stones are not perfectly flat, I decided to place a flat metal ruler on top of the blade against the back light instead. The light will come through between the blade & the ruler, revealing holes/low spots.

The first picture, ruler not in contact with the knife, lots of light coming through:
View attachment 88857

Ruler on Shig., revealing low spots, very minor.
View attachment 88858

Ruler on Shig. #2, contact moved closer to the edge:

View attachment 88859

Ruler on Shig. #3:
Very close to the edge. The front is not a low spot, the ruler is off the edge at that spot due to the curve of the blade.
View attachment 88860

As a control, here is my Shi.han against ruler:
View attachment 88863
I think it's about time you made a video, so we can see the light reflections and see how good/bad your work is.
 

daveb

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Call it anything but late to dinner.....
 

ptolemy

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Playing the devil's advocate here, why would this not be a shig?

Like - if I took a TF 210 Gyuto, thinned the hell out of it, and reprofiled it for a bigger flat spot, it would still be a TF. If I then used it for 10 years until it was a 150mm sliver of it's past self, it would still be a TF. It would arguably be a petty and not a gyuto, too - but to me it would still be a TF.

Although it's jarring to say the least, isn't @ma_sha1 just thinning, reprofiling, and refinishing his knife in a way that would give him as the owner the most utility and/or enjoyment?

Kinda like Bamford and their custom Rolex abominations.

Edit: many replies have been posted since I started typing this rip order of conversation
That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.
 

Jville

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It’s still a Shig.
If I cut you legs off (Not that I’ll do that, just to make a point), does your name change?
You totally reground the knife. The grind is nothing like a shig, hence why you should just call it a Ma Sha.
This must scare the life out of some. Because if you had done this without documentation it is likely that no one would ever know. The knife could be passed in the community without detection.
I would think alot of people would notice, don't you. I've seen people pick up much subtler changes.
Ok, the official name is “Ma_sha1 heavily modified Frankenstein gyuto 180mm formerly known as Shigefusa Nakiri”.

When I call it a Shig. in this thread, this is what I mean, ok? The full name is just too long 🤪
You could just abbreviate it the Ma Sha or the Frankenshig.
 

Jville

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That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.
I'm not insulted. It's just not a Shig anymore. There's more to knife making than just a blank of steel. So Ma Sha is the knife maker, he basically used a blank of Shig steel that happened to previously be a fully functional nakiri. It's way beyond some thinning.
 

Forty Ounce

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That's always been my point, but so many feel insulted that "some" connecticut yankee doodle dandy would dare to touch some masters work.
I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE
 

M1k3

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I'm not insulted. It's just not a Shig anymore. There's more to knife making than just a blank of steel. So Ma Sha is the knife maker, he basically used a blank of Shig steel that happened to previously be a fully functional nakiri. It's way beyond some thinning.
So every knife that's had it's tip heavily damaged shouldn't be called what it was before it was damaged?

Or is it different because it wasn't on purpose, therefore getting a pass from making a stink?
 

ptolemy

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I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE
but you're essentially contradicting yourself. many times we seen here, probably 1000's... that some knives becomes hot, 20-30 people buy it here and end up thinning it or something else and then selling it as is. they most often mention it, of course

but, by your definition, ANY changes to the original design make it a custom, not that custom by that maker. what about when dave etches it? or replaces handle? the original designer must have attached the handle in perfect synergy with the knife , etc

I am just saying, as long as masha1 tells everyone when he sells what he did to it, then since original is a shig, then it's a shig. now, if he changes steel, heat treat, decides to add more, then it's different, but where do we draw the line? I imagine it's same as another 'popular' topic row v wade, some people are way to the left, some way to the right, some are somewhere in the continuum.
 

Jville

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So every knife that's had it's tip heavily damaged shouldn't be called what it was before it was damaged?

Or is it different because it wasn't on purpose, therefore getting a pass from making a stink?
Heavily damaged tip can definitely change some things. But not always, necessarily the whole knife. The spine can be brought down and the tip thinned. It can definitely be different. But this is literally a whole new knife profile, grind, etc. Nothing but the steel is from shig. I don't understand why people argue to keep calling it a shig. Im not saying anything about the project, besides just it's a new knife, not a shig. I'm surprised it's debated so heavily.
 

Forty Ounce

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but you're essentially contradicting yourself. many times we seen here, probably 1000's... that some knives becomes hot, 20-30 people buy it here and end up thinning it or something else and then selling it as is. they most often mention it, of course

but, by your definition, ANY changes to the original design make it a custom, not that custom by that maker. what about when dave etches it? or replaces handle? the original designer must have attached the handle in perfect synergy with the knife , etc

I am just saying, as long as masha1 tells everyone when he sells what he did to it, then since original is a shig, then it's a shig. now, if he changes steel, heat treat, decides to add more, then it's different, but where do we draw the line? I imagine it's same as another 'popular' topic row v wade, some people are way to the left, some way to the right, some are somewhere in the continuum.
You're being too critical. Common sense bud
 

Jville

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I'm surprised it's so heavily debated also. It's a freaking knife! Calm down!
I'm perfectly calm, hence the no exclamations. I kind of assumed everyone thought it wasn't a shig anymore but, rather, a knife made by Ma Sha. I was sort of surprised to see otherwise.
 

parbaked

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"Opinions are like noses, everyone has one and thinks theirs smells best"
I think I got that right?
Here's mine:
The only way forward is to suggest a better name.
I propose taking the first and last three letters from the thread title.

Can we call it: ShiDIY Knife?
 

Barclid

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Well, @ma_sha1 I'll just say that I was predisposed against believing in you given your last Shigefusa modification, but honestly I think you've done a really good job of working on this one. I think pretty much everything but the finish looks good. Enjoy your knife.
 

JDC

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Maybe the OP should just engrave or stamp his name alongside shigfusa after completion, the knife now has his time and life in it, and it will be an identifiable piece if it somehow went to BST.

Still a chance this modification may beat the original shig in performance.
 

ma_sha1

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Maybe “Shigefusa hand-modified by masha“? Or just Shi-han for short?
Lol, good one, 🤣. But this will ignite a whole new round of fire with Shi.han fans.

Or, are you just trying to string things up, like there’s not enough controversy already? 🤔
 

Twigg

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Radical thought but what if he calls it whatever he wants? I doubt anyone outside this forum even knows what Shig is or means.
Hey now! Its a slow day, what else do we have to argue over. 😉
 

nakiriknaifuwaifu

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I doubt anyone would have a problem with a proper maker/polisher enhancing the work of the maker. I think the problem comes up when an inexperienced person does it. Someone with proper knife knowledge knows better than to completely change a knife. They give respect to the craftsmen and try to remove as little metal as possible. That's the key right there, and I'll put it in caps so you can read it... AS LITTLE METAL AS POSSIBLE
I mean, he did remove "as little metal as possible" to make it into a gyuto...

All things considered it looks like he's done an honest job of things, and pretty well too. If he uses the knife it'll be a hell of a lot better of a fate IMO than some cabinet queens.
 

inferno

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Covid-19 project gets a bit crazy sones times 😜

Here I want to turn the 180 Shig. Nakiri. into 180mm gyuto instead, before I start, what you guys think about the profile?

I like it tall, aiming for 48/49mm heel height. I can make tip higher or lower, pretty much anywhere I want it before I fire up the table saw.

The question is, should I reduce the heel height to make it more slim looking, more similar to a real Shig. Kasumi ?

For ref., the Fujin has 44 heel height.

View attachment 88306
this post is inferno approved!
 

MowgFace

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This debate is cracking me up.

Dave Martell made a living off thinning and etching Hiromotos, people out here taking damaged Kato gyutos, getting them ground down to a Petty to resell, altering profiles, thinning bevels, removing shoulders, rounding spines and choils, putting on horrific colored handles with epoxy, adding TF finger notches, etc. You name it, we have done it here. Usually no one sh!ts their pants over it. Why? Because as long as someone doesnt try to pass it off as something else, or that its BNIB, there is nothing wrong. Why is Ma Sha not getting the benefit of the doubt that there would be full disclosure if it were to be sold?

Quarantine got a lot of folks wound pretty tight... Ma Sha great job on your SHIG.
 
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