Shigefusa vs heiji

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shobudonnie

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Specifically for a 240mm gyuto, how different are the heat treat and grind for these two brands?

Sharpness, edge retention, brittleness, ease of sharpening…

Food release, wedging, overall cutting performance
 
Just a random question, have you checked pricing and availability on both?
 
Yes Heiji and Shigefusa have both worked with/under Iwasaki, and whilst I don't have experience with Shig, I'd expect them to be similar in steel quality for that reason. Both are highly praised for their steel.
 
Have a yo 240 shig and a wa 240 heiji. The shig is much nicer as a knife. Both steels are good, but you d take the shig every day
 
I owned both. I find the Heiji having more bite and being more fragile. Sincerely, I like Heiji steel more, it feels like having more personality for me. Not a big fan of Shig steel.
 
I owned both. I find the Heiji having more bite and being more fragile. Sincerely, I like Heiji steel more, it feels like having more personality for me. Not a big fan of Shig steel.
Why do you not like shig steel, but like heiji steel?
 
Which steel would you say gets sharper if both had the same grind?
Whichever I do a better job sharpening. No offense, but I think it's a bit of a nonsensical question - both are capable of taking an extremely keen edge. Nothing about one vs the other makes it inherently sharper.
 
Aren't carbon Heji and Shigefusa usually said to be the same steel around these parts?
 
Both are good steel heat treats. I feel the heiji feels bitier and slightly chippier, but heiji also chips with a lower edge angle I feel. The shigefusa feels smoother upon sharpening and slightly easier to sharpen. They feel more similar than not. Having sharpened and owned carbon swedish heiji (1), shigefusa (2), iwasaki (5), they're all good. Iwasaki has the finest microstructure and is the hardest when sharpening. If you're after finest edge taking, well, razors are where it's at. But for kitchen knives whatever works, works. I have gotten used to being fine with bitier coarser things, as well as coarser grits (320, 400) for regular kitchen tasks, out of laziness but also seeing that it works fine with careful deburring and light sharpening pressure, and a cleaned stone.

Seriously though, I pondered the sharpness question quite a bit, you can certainly explore that route, as I have with various blacksmiths works via western, and a bunch of Japanese tool, razor, knife makers. Axe heat treat vs nata vs stone chisel vs kanna vs wood chisel vs tungsten carbide edge taking vs deba vs usuba vs yanagiba vs stainless etc etc. I've said a couple times that I really like tosa treat, and some softer stuff, for kitchen knives too, or even the sk type or basic carbon steels used in vintage Japanese forged monosteel carbon.

I will say that heiji leans a bit toward his saw background in edge bitiness bc for saws that's an essential trait.

Ultimate sharpness matters more for razors and even then, I also don't prefer diamond stropped ultimate sharp razors -- I feel they cut skin and leave it razor burned more for me. And for example, tamahagane, I didn't prefer iwasaki tamahagane, which many consider to be the pinnacle of pure steel. Not did I necessarily like much more vacuum remelt extra pure white steel (tried 2 kanna, kunio Yokohama, tsunesaburo), nor tamahagane kitchen knives, nor sc145 (raquin).

I'm can get the job done with vg-5, and molybdenum steel, and SK, etc
 
Aren't carbon Heji and Shigefusa usually said to be the same steel around these parts?
They are. But I heard the heat treat is a little different. I heard the heiji steel holds an edge a little better, and is more brittle than the shig. Both easy to sharpen. So I’m assuming that the heiji has slightly better potential sharpness assuming that the grind were the same.

This steel for me is the most mysterious of the carbon steels because nobody knows exactly what steel it is. But since Shigefusa uses it, it must be really really good.
 
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akschually...

Iwa steel wasn't really designed for esteemed exec chef and line cook Mr. Rory Butterpants from the greatest diner in South-East West Virginia who pinch grips and tap chops through 97 bags of taters for early AM hashbrowns

in other words, there are far better steels for daily driving for edge retention, durability, and reactivity

also unless you're regularly passing the HHT, you are not maxing out sharpness potential in any carbon steel

Heiji Semi-stainless >> Shig Iwa => Heiji Iwa
anyone who disagrees with this ranking is wrong and can't sharpen worth a tokyo poop



Really really good is subjective. For most people who are not a 110-year old sushi master who can reliably slice sushi so lightly and precisely as to cut through the fish but stop your stroke in the subatomic space between the fish and the board - this will not be a steel that you would consider high performing
 
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Yeah I always found differences in 'achievable sharpness' in low alloy steels pretty much... splitting hairs. Differences are more a function of how good of a job you did as a sharpener than the steel itself. Any marginal differences that do exist are probably gone after hitting the board a few times. 🤷‍♂️
I second the preference for SKD instead. :D
 
shig steel is nicer to sharpen and isn't chippy like heiji. shig cladding is horribly reactive however.

shig prices are down right silly, mizuno white honyaki would be much better for the price bracket.
 
Heiji is supposed to be harder than shig. Heiji grind also doesn’t help durability. Both are fine, but nothing special by modern standards. Heiji skd is better. You could improve heiji carbon durability by changing geometry, but it is not clear if that would make sense since heiji geometry is what makes it what it is. Which steel gets sharper in the context of kitchen knives is a silly question especially when you compare the same steel.
 
I think the discussion on “sharper” steel can come from like distinction when you are trying to sharpen cheap Chinese stainless vs like a white 2 mazaki….

But id think you have to be a very special person to distinguish between how “sharp” white #1 gets between Togashi, tanaka, tf….

I got one cannot tell… sharpness.. bite.. all seem to matter more on the stones used and my alcohol consumption before putting the knife on stone…
 
I think the discussion on “sharper” steel can come from like distinction when you are trying to sharpen cheap Chinese stainless vs like a white 2 mazaki….

But id think you have to be a very special person to distinguish between how “sharp” white #1 gets between Togashi, tanaka, tf….

I got one cannot tell… sharpness.. bite.. all seem to matter more on the stones used and my alcohol consumption before putting the knife on stone…
I agree for the most part, on my high quality stuff can't tell a huge difference in end product if sharpened right. I will say... My knives from rob (the.9ine) have a noticeabley more aggressive and sharp feeling with a new edge compared to everything else I've had...funny enough this is the only example I can think of for me
 
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