Show your newest knife buy

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

valgard

Stones Addict (terminal case)
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
3,063
Reaction score
1,596
Location
Calgary, AB
Damn you Carlos! ;) Interest piqued on looks alone.
I'm meant to be on a knife buying hiatus. You could always help out by telling us it's a really poor performer... :rolleyes:
Hahahahaha, I'm supposed to be on one too [emoji23]. But these aren't available anywhere (so you have that going for you Marek [emoji6]) so I had to take it! I only cut some carrot coins with it before I sharpen it and it seems to be a pretty good cutter but I need to use it more extensively before making my mind.
 

McMan

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
1,310
Reaction score
722
I've seen that picture before, but unless I have misinterpreted, @osakajoe disagrees with you. And perhaps @JBroida does too, given that the Kochi in question is "with machi", but doesn't have the gap pictured in your diagram. But I won't speak for them...

Edit: unless the machi is supposed to be the thin part of the tang in its entirety, so that in the picture, they just label what’s visible. Anyway, I don’t know anything...
Huh?--I don't see how anyone can agree or disagree with me... I didn't make a point.
I just posted a diagram from another thread for reference. If you're saying you think the diagram is wrong, then that's another matter.

Machi can be set flush to the handle (i.e. OsakaJoe’s preference) or left with a gap so that it is noticeable. There are reasons for a gap as well as reasons not to like one. Regardless of gap or no, one benefit of a machi is a taller neck (emoto) as compared to a stick tang. Some people (me included) find this more comfortable than the shorter neck of a stick tang.
 

Corradobrit1

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
1,339
'Mind the gap!' :)

Jon put it pretty well here
"I know that many on here do not like them, so i thought i would take some time to explain a bit about them. First, the biggest thing to know is that there are regional differences in aesthetics. Kanto tends to like large gaps, while kansai does not. However, most knife makers/retailers/wholesalers in japan will still leave them if it makes more sense to than not. However, on request from many us retailers, many wholesalers in japan have started installing the handles flush with the handle. So, the question becomes "why leave a gap?"

There are a few reasons the gaps are left... here are some of the top ones

-When the neck of the knife is short (which can happen for a variety of reasons or sometimes none at all), the spacing between the choil and the handle becomes important. This space should be large enough to fit about 80% of your middle finger when holding the knife in a pinch grip. Smaller than this will be too small and is uncomfortable to hold. Larger than this will be too loose and can make rotary control of the knife more difficult than it should be. 80% or so gives enough space for the finger to fit, but is tight enough that the finger is still in contact with the handle for rotational stability. Also, what i have just said is based on what one would expect for a gyuto. Ideal sizes will be different based on knife types, expected grips, intended customers, etc.

-Handle installation... This is not only for ease of installing handles in the traditional japanese way (which is easier than using epoxy, allows for easier handle replacement, and removal of handles for maintenance), but also allows for knife placement relative to the handle. Knives with no machi will have a spine that is significantly lower than the top of the handle for example. On significantly harder woods (like ebony), the tang with the machi makes installation significantly easier with less chance of the wood cracking (which can be a problem with ebony).

Here are the top reasons i hear for people not wanting machi gaps...

-Food gets stuck. I've used knives with machi gaps for many years, both at home and in professional kitchens. This area is almost always covered with your hand and is not generally at risk for food getting stuck. If food does get in there, its a long way from being stuck, and comes out with general knife cleaning. If you find food accumulating, the chances are you may not be taking care of your knife well enough in my opinion. I've seen a wide number of knives from a wide number of people. I see just as many very dirty knives with no machi as i do dirty ones with a machi. I would venture to say, a dirty knife is more a function of the user than the knife design.

-It catches on your finger. I've found this to be the case with very large machi gaps or on some lower end knives that have machis that extend beyond the handle in width (or height depending on how you think about it). However, after significant testing, i've found that on knives with normal sized machi gaps, if this turns into a problem, it is most often the result of the use of an improper grip. When knives are held properly, your fingers dont really make contact with this area in a way than can catch.

-And of course, some people just dont like the way it looks... actually, this one is the reason i understand best.

The reason i say this, is that sometimes i ask makers to reduce or remove the machi gaps based on customer requests. However, i have a stipulation i have discussed with them. I would prefer that if and when they reduce the gap, they do it to an extent that does not sacrifice the ability to grip and use the knife well.

Anyways, hope this helps make sense of this to some of you.

-Jon"

I think I've read its also a regional thing. Tokyo-style to have a gap......
 

ian

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
2,370
Reaction score
2,896
Location
Boston, MA
Apologies, @McMan. Didn’t mean to be provocative. I just meant that I was having a hard time reconciling the diagram you linked with how osaka and Jon were talking about it. I appreciate that you linked the diagram, though.

Anyway, this is all a bit silly: someone had asked at some point above what ‘machi’ is, and being annoyingly pedantic I was trying to figure out which exact part of the knife it is. E.g. the gap, the T shape consisting of the thinner part of the tang and the adjacent step, the top of the T consisting of just the step, the bottom of the T, the part of the T that’s visible after handle installation, etc...
 

Dhoff

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
418
Reaction score
158
Location
Denmark
'Mind the gap!' :)

Jon put it pretty well here
"I know that many on here do not like them, so i thought i would take some time to explain a bit about them. First, the biggest thing to know is that there are regional differences in aesthetics. Kanto tends to like large gaps, while kansai does not. However, most knife makers/retailers/wholesalers in japan will still leave them if it makes more sense to than not. However, on request from many us retailers, many wholesalers in japan have started installing the handles flush with the handle. So, the question becomes "why leave a gap?"
+.
I'm not sure I follow, there is no machi on a yo handled knife? Why is it a problem when pinch gripping a wa?
 

Corradobrit1

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
2,727
Reaction score
1,339
I'm not sure I follow, there is no machi on a yo handled knife? Why is it a problem when pinch gripping a wa?
Not referring to YO handles. This was part of the osakaJoe/Ian discussion re machi and gaps on Wa handled knives. Wrong thread for these discussions though.
 

osakajoe

Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
587
Reaction score
342
Here’s a picture.


I’ve put on thousands of handles and seen others do hundreds. I mostly chalk up the gap or space to being afraid of cracking the horn.

This is very easy to do since where the tang meets the Machi it is thickest. If you haven’t burned in enough room for the tang you feel the knife not wedging down in as much when you hammer it on. So it’s better to stop and leave it where it is the risk breaking the handle.

Why don’t they burn in more room? Takes more time and usually don’t want to bother as that’s they way they’ve always done it. No need to change now. Very Japanese.

Just take a look at a few debas if you have a chance. Most debas have no Machi and will range differently on how much hammered in they are. There’s a point to stop or risk losing product. Debas are extremely thick and take more time if the handle doesn’t have a big enough hole that begin with.

Most Japanese chefs don’t rest a finger underneath the corner for most usage. Hence why the handles are predominantly shinogi (D-shaped). Most of their fingers are resting on the ridge. You will then most often see the index finger up on the spine when using a Deba or Yanagiba. Sometimes the Deba you have a finger underneath the corner, but again most debas don’t come with a Machi. Even the usuba when doing Katsura-muki your resting your finger on the ridge of the handle behind the spine to move it up and down while the thumb is behind the bottom corner.

So in my personal opinion I don’t see the logic behind leaving a space. If you need more room why not change the corner grind to have more space or lower the Machi for more space when flush.

Also forgot to mention I’ve heard people say the gap makes it easier to sharpen and relates to how the old style of putting on handles with no glue or sealing. Eventually water gets in loosening up the handle so the gap allows one to hammer it in further down the road. These are just rumors I’ve heard.
 
Last edited:

Andrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
199
Reaction score
42
Delayed taking photos for no good reason, but here they are- sorry for the poor quality...
upload_2019-5-8_16-22-11.jpeg
upload_2019-5-8_16-22-21.jpeg
upload_2019-5-8_16-22-31.jpeg
upload_2019-5-8_16-22-45.jpeg
upload_2019-5-8_16-22-58.jpeg
 

rob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2018
Messages
217
Reaction score
523
Screen Shot 2019-05-10 at 12.06.58 PM.png

Salem Straub 220mm San Mai Cleaver. 260 grams.
 

Lars

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
853
Reaction score
1,755
Location
Denmark
Just received a Munetoshi Butcher from the JNS anniversary sale.
Here it is with the cleaver.. Sorry for the low quality photo..

IMG_0028.jpg
 

Chicagohawkie

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
228
C4FBD2B4-3FC9-4C4F-B47C-FB1B9DA2A36F.jpeg
204493CC-0043-438E-8CFE-F8D421504212.jpeg
C4FBD2B4-3FC9-4C4F-B47C-FB1B9DA2A36F.jpeg
204493CC-0043-438E-8CFE-F8D421504212.jpeg
Kono most recent Funayuki. I would say that this goes way beyond a laser, it’s a razor blade. Thinner than my shibata KS clone which I didn’t think could be any thinner. You can easily distort the edge with your finger nail without much pressure. Pretty sure edge retention is going to be non existent. Gonna sharpen out the micro chips and see how this works.
 

HRC_64

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
2,713
Reaction score
561
The modern "Fuji" series seems to have variances in heft.

The FM i tried in b2 was reasonably solid knife,
whereas the wh1 was a track car.

Do you think that's just a light sample or are all the funaykis
got that crazy lazer grind likt the FT (or whatever the lasest thin verions is)?
 

Chicagohawkie

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
228
The modern "Fuji" series seems to have variances in heft.

The FM i tried in b2 was reasonably solid knife,
whereas the wh1 was a track car.

Do you think that's just a light sample or are all the funaykis
got that crazy lazer grind likt the FT (or whatever the lasest thin verions is)?
I have no idea about the variances of the new so called Fuji’s. This is the first one I’ve tried. I will say it’s nothing like the older Fuji’s. I’ve heard from a few that some of these have been very,very thin. I haven’t used it yet, but I’m gonna assume that it’s gonna plow through soft produce like nothing other. I think this will be a decent use at home knife for the casual user, but in no way is this a professional use knife - this edge would never endure a rugged work environment.
 

chinacats

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
7,035
Reaction score
294
Who knows what it is, I know it ain’t a true Fuji. It’s super thin and has a KS type profile. 247 mm in length and 52 mm at the heel.
So was it sold as 270? Curious what makes it a funyaki? Either way i love the size/profile but guessing it may be rather delicate for my use. Nice score.
 

Chicagohawkie

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
228
So was it sold as 270? Curious what makes it a funyaki? Either way i love the size/profile but guessing it may be rather delicate for my use. Nice score.
I think it was marketed as a 250? 255? This would not last in working environment. This is 100 percent for sure the thinnest edge I’ve ever possessed.
 

labor of love

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
8,851
Reaction score
2,560
There’s some kono MMs 270mm right now that are 250mm edge length! Perfect size!
 

Deshi

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
16
Reaction score
3
Location
Novanglia
Gorgeous blade!

Always understood a funayuki to be shorter and have a (proportionally) wider profile than this, as it was traditionally a fisherman’s utility knife - a hybrid of a deba and a gyuto, with a double grind - see image below. Thinner than a deba, or even a mioroshi deba, but still a something of a workhorse (rather than a laser) since it was a utility tool, to serve for multiple tasks in the limited galley space aboard a fishing boat.

But it’s the maker’s choice to name the blade, I suppose, and a rose, by any other name, is still a rose ...

You definitely have a lovely blade, whatever it is!

B8B350E6-C8BC-494D-BD46-EE9C4C085582.jpeg
 
2
Top