Simple 220 grit stone question

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rick alen

rick alen

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I need just a cheap 220 grit stone, cutting speed is most desired. On Amazon I can get either a Ninawa 220 Super Stone, or King combo 220/800, both go for the same $35. Having the 800 grit would be nice, but the faster stone is preferred if there's a significant difference, and especially if it doesn't dish too fast. What do you folks think?
 
rick alen said:
I need just a cheap 220 grit stone, cutting speed is most desired. On Amazon I can get either a Ninawa 220 Super Stone, or King combo 220/800, both go for the same $35. Having the 800 grit would be nice, but the faster stone is preferred if there's a significant difference, and especially if it doesn't dish too fast. What do you folks think?
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Not sure on the 220 exactly....but my first 3 stones were naniwa super stones, pretty sure had 1k, 3k and like 8k. They were super slow cutting. Don't have experience with king, but I like my naniwa choseras and shapton glass.
 
I have a naniwa traditional 220 that is a pretty good stone and $35. It is my understanding that the super stones are the hardest naniwas and also the slowest cutting. The traditional stones aren’t as fast as the professional series but considerably cheaper.
 
The 220 Super Stone sucks at actual metal removal. Super muddy.

King 300 is a good cheap option. Shapton Glass 220 is another option that's a little more money. Sigma 240 is fast on mono steel blades.

There's also the India and Crystolon stones. Another viable option.
 
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I have the cheapo 220 King, it's fine for the price. Not super muddy, and cuts reasonably well. Works better if you lap it relatively often. If you want just pure cutting speed maybe the $30 140 grit cktg diamond plate will work.
 
Norton India. If you need a stone for quick removal of steel and you aren’t using super alloyed steels then a good old oil stone is the best choice I’ve found.
Big gnarly scratches from the coarse but the fine will tidy them up quickly. Orders of magnitude quicker than the coarser Waterstones I’ve tried
 
TB_London said:
Norton India. If you need a stone for quick removal of steel and you aren’t using super alloyed steels then a good old oil stone is the best choice I’ve found.
Big gnarly scratches from the coarse but the fine will tidy them up quickly. Orders of magnitude quicker than the coarser Waterstones I’ve tried
Click to expand...

This is true as long as you're using oil and the contact pressures are high enough to continue releasing fresh abrasive. If it's not then the stone will eventually glaze and start burnishing the edge. When that happens you must lap the surface and finish appropriate to the relative grit using SiC. You could use a Crystolon to resurface it but eventually that will wear smooth and you'll have to condition it as well.

Many people don't do this at all because they don't know it needs to be done. I know you can also use the NL-8 and NL-10 from Nano Hone but I know they are crazy expensive for most people. A stone that you could get which would approximate the India but less strong of a bond would be the SIgma 400, though it's less coarse I'd still expect it to work well enough.

Naniwa Traditional is hard to argue with for the money, especially the pink one... Naniwa 220 Grit Pink Alumina Traditional Waterstone
 
In my experience, King 300 is great for minor thinning and removing scratches from a 220ish stone, but too slow for major metal removal.
Shapton pro 220 is the stone I keep going back to for heavy thinning and repairs and I’ve tried a few in that range, but it’s not available with Prime shipping right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1427024250...aMuRP-JWQ55IBNEXmpbbfKwjE6OAbdJQDMjHI3Qca6yh4
Shapton Glass 220 is a bit thinner so you run out of stone faster, but it cuts well and seems like a good deal on Prime right now.
 
The_Real_Self said:
This is true as long as you're using oil and the contact pressures are high enough to continue releasing fresh abrasive. If it's not then the stone will eventually glaze and start burnishing the edge. When that happens you must lap the surface and finish appropriate to the relative grit using SiC. You could use a Crystolon to resurface it but eventually that will wear smooth and you'll have to condition it as well.

Many people don't do this at all because they don't know it needs to be done. I know you can also use the NL-8 and NL-10 from Nano Hone but I know they are crazy expensive for most people. A stone that you could get which would approximate the India but less strong of a bond would be the SIgma 400, though it's less coarse I'd still expect it to work well enough.

Naniwa Traditional is hard to argue with for the money, especially the pink one... Naniwa 220 Grit Pink Alumina Traditional Waterstone
Click to expand...
Loose SiC powder freshens it up easily, takes a while to glaze though. Soft stainless gummed mine a bit but running a wide bevel carbon over it sorted it out.

Can use the same mineral oil as for chopping boards.
 
OK so from what I've got here it seems the Shapton pro 120 is actually what I need, and like the 220 it's just $40. I'm doing mostly stainless and PM alloys, mostly cheap and thick-edged stainless of friends knives. I have the King 300 which is great for removing deep scratches before going to a 1000. I even use the bottom to flatten my higher stones, it will last me forever in that capacity. Thanks all for the help.
 
If youre wanting to use it for pm stainless the shapton 120 can work.

A couple tips for getting the most out of it.

1. Use a lot of pressure. You need really press down on it.

2. Do not wash the slurry off. It helps the stone continue to release fresh abrasive, which will keep the stone from loading up, and glazing over. You can splash a little water on it to get some off if it starts getting too muddy but ideally you want some on there.

The slurry itself isnt going to be whats removing the steel faster, just allowing the stone itself to keep cutting efficiently. Though it will be doing some 3 body abrasion, the stone itself is doing the work.

I personally recommend something very muddy for doing pm steels. The 220 green brick ive heard works very well for this. Also ive had good luck with the bryxco manticore, and its very cheap. If you go that route, be aware, you will need something also very coarse to remove the 60 grit scratches.

But as far as pure speed goes, the manticore is hard to beat. Flattening... Isnt fun though.
 
zizirex said:
the green Naniwa Traditional works quite well. Dish a bit faster than the pink one but cut faster as well. make sure you flatten it often.
Click to expand...
The way I use my coarse stone it doesn't dish. I mark the high spots and concentrate my action there. Easy to do when you're just removing metal rather than making a razor edge. Daveb offered me a deal on a pink he wasn't using anymore so I grabbed it. I think the 220 will be most useful for me, but I may eventually add the Shapton 120 for those cheap stainless knives I occasionally fix up for folks.
 
rick alen said:
The way I use my coarse stone it doesn't dish. I mark the high spots and concentrate my action there. Easy to do when you're just removing metal rather than making a razor edge. Daveb offered me a deal on a pink he wasn't using anymore so I grabbed it. I think the 220 will be most useful for me, but I may eventually add the Shapton 120 for those cheap stainless knives I occasionally fix up for folks.
Click to expand...

I do the same thing when thinning, I use a Naniwa Green Lobster 150-180 grit and the thing wears like butter (or so it seems). I thought about flattening it but it's so easy to concentrate wear on it intentionally you can keep it pretty flat with minimal effort. Doing this can actually grind faster as you're increasing pressures on the grinding also which will remove metal quicker (in theory, not sure how well that translates on these soft stones that release abrasive readily).
 
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