The same is true for the "straight" SK family of steels. There's a number of variations but the makers seem to always just say SK.
SKD vs SG2 Steel?
- Thread starter Se1ryu
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
The same is true for the "straight" SK family of steels. There's a number of variations but the makers seem to always just say SK.
If I remembered correctly SLD is an improved SKD11/D2, at least that’s what Hitachi said.
Jason183
Senior Member
SKD can be SKD11 or SKD12, it can be confusing for some ppl that’s why I put numbers behind it everytime when I mentioned SKD steel. SKD 11 do feel very similar as R2 IME, it’s a little bit easier to sharpen/ deburr than R2.
If vendors doesn’t specify their SKD knife, I think the only way to tell the difference is by using them and see how reactive they’re.
SKD12/A2 is semi stainless 5-6% chromium, can patina faster.
SKD11/D2 is almost stainless 11% chromium
If vendors doesn’t specify their SKD knife, I think the only way to tell the difference is by using them and see how reactive they’re.
SKD12/A2 is semi stainless 5-6% chromium, can patina faster.
SKD11/D2 is almost stainless 11% chromium
My Nihei SLD (prob similar to Yoshikane given he worked there) is actually way easier to sharpen/deburr than R2.
SLD pretty much does not patina, but I'm sure it's possible. Even SKD12 takes a while for me. I found the Kono YS to patina much faster, which people speculate is SKD12, but the difference in patina formation (vs Yoshi SKD) makes me skeptical, unless the Yoshi SKD is actually SKD11 (note Burrfection sells a Hatsukokoro by Yoshikane listed as SKD11, unclear if it's a different line or someone is incorrect about which steel it is)
SLD pretty much does not patina, but I'm sure it's possible. Even SKD12 takes a while for me. I found the Kono YS to patina much faster, which people speculate is SKD12, but the difference in patina formation (vs Yoshi SKD) makes me skeptical, unless the Yoshi SKD is actually SKD11 (note Burrfection sells a Hatsukokoro by Yoshikane listed as SKD11, unclear if it's a different line or someone is incorrect about which steel it is)
Hitachi does claim it's improved and better than SKD11. The improvement could come in other forms than composition I imagine (process etc). But given it's a marketing claim I take it with a grain of salt.
Maybe they're getting some grain refinement through Thermal-Mechanical Processing.
I think tighter tolerances of composition.
There is also SLD-Magic or SLD8, but I haven't seen it in knives. Hitachi claims about it are suspect to me going by its supposed composition as they claim 35% higher wear resistance due to higher hardness. Seems like a lot going from 58-60 to 60-62 HRC, plus SLD-Magic should have less carbides, so..... maybe there is some magic there
mpier
Senior Member
My Yoshikane SKDs actually started to get a patina fairly quickly, I cut a lot of fruit with my 180 and petty and they started pretty fast, my 240 started after it was used for cutting roast’s but not as much as the other two.
I have a Yoshikane SLD I find although it cuts fantastic it got some micro chipping starting from day one but after the first couple of touch ups they have stopped appearing.
Has others have said my R2 works best for me on my 800 Chosera and no higher. I have brought it up to a 3k to get a really sharp refined edge but ended up dropping it down to a 400 with a few light strokes to get the teeth back.
I find they all sharpen fairly easily, but for me I don’t find my R2 as that much more edge retention than my SKD but that could be just the heat treatment. I personally prefer the SKD and I don’t find my Yoshikane’s being fragile on the edge except for the SLD
I have a Yoshikane SLD I find although it cuts fantastic it got some micro chipping starting from day one but after the first couple of touch ups they have stopped appearing.
Has others have said my R2 works best for me on my 800 Chosera and no higher. I have brought it up to a 3k to get a really sharp refined edge but ended up dropping it down to a 400 with a few light strokes to get the teeth back.
I find they all sharpen fairly easily, but for me I don’t find my R2 as that much more edge retention than my SKD but that could be just the heat treatment. I personally prefer the SKD and I don’t find my Yoshikane’s being fragile on the edge except for the SLD
Se1ryu
Senior Member
Do you try them both SKD & SLD ?? What is the difference between those two steel ? Heat treatment or one more reactive than the other??
mpier
Senior Member
I believe the heat treatment on my SLD is 64hrc could be why it’s a little chippy, it is not reactive at all. My SKD is around 63hrc and is reactive but nothing like carbon steel of course.
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
its just a tighter spec of of skd11. you can see the spec range in % for all the alloying ingredients for the standard skd11. skd11 can be whatever fits in the spec range where the sld is exactly this and that %.
Se1ryu
Senior Member
So SLD is less reactive than SKD? Nice info. Thank you.
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
Also to confuse this sld/skd11/skd12 matter even more. i have a yoshi that is believed to be made out of the a2 equivalent.
however on the wholesalers website they state its "stainless", which would indicate d2.
and here at home its "stainless" if you'd ask me. the cladding corrodes more than the edge...
however on the wholesalers website they state its "stainless", which would indicate d2.
and here at home its "stainless" if you'd ask me. the cladding corrodes more than the edge...
Neither A2 (presumably comparable to SKD12) or D2 (presumably comparable to SLD/SKD11) are really stainless but both are IME much more corrosion resistant than low alloy steels like Shirogami, 1095,... SG2 is substantially more corrosion resistant than either A2 or D2.
Just to be clear this could be the Patented compositions range so as to not give away the actual steel composition. Hitachi likely has a composition they like the most that they sell. And if other manufacturers make this steel they probably have a similar spec that they stick to.
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
here is the specs from hitachi. sld tolerance is tighter than skd11
https://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/yss/search/sld.html
https://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/yss/search/sld.html
| Designation | D2 | X153CrMoV12 | 1.2379 | SKD11 | SLD |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Std. | AISI | DIN | W-Nr. | JIS | YSS |
| C | 1.40-1.60 | 1.45-1.60 | 1.45-1.60 | 1.40-1.60 | 1.50 |
| Si | 0.30-0.50 | 0.10-0.60 | 0.10-0.60 | <=0.40 | 0.30 |
| Mn | 0.30-0.50 | 0.20-0.60 | 0.20-0.60 | <=0.60 | 0.40 |
| Ni | - | - | - | - | - |
| Cr | 11.0-13.0 | 11.0-13.0 | 11.0-13.0 | 11.00-13.00 | 12.00 |
| Mo | 0.70-1.20 | 0.70-1.00 | 0.70-1.00 | 0.80-1.20 | 0.90 |
| W | - | - | - | - | - |
| V | (0.80) | 0.70-1.00 | 0.70-1.00 | 0.20-0.50 | 0.30 |
| Co | - | - | - | - | - |
| others | - | - | - | - | - |
Very different steels. SLD has higher corrosion resistance has higher wear resistance, has lower toughness and is harder to sharpen.
I assume when you say SKD you refer to SKD 12.
Se1ryu
Senior Member
Yes. I think Yoshikane SKD Gyuto is SKD12.. you know most of the seller only put SKD on the description without any number.
Back to OP… I have both of those knives but am a home cook. I haven’t cut any rolls with them-my guess is a wide bevel is the way to go since any stuff inside will adhere to the blade road. Nakagawa ginsan on rolls anyone?
They are both great cutters and ridiculously TBE. Maybe even fragile (yes micro bevel for the workplace). In my apple test the slight edge goes to the Yoshi but the Nigara is no slouch. Both about the same with cucumbers w a hint to the nigara since it has a baby shinogi step. Stiction is an issue for the yoshi no doubt. Sharpening is ease win for skd. Easy rec for the Yoshikane aside from corrosion factor. It’s a KKF fav for good reason- it’s a fantastic knife in the price category.
At KKF there’s not a lot talk about SS but that nigara is a really nice knife. The grind is super thin and a hint concave/hint but not kurosaki extreme (concave). Feels pretty stiff, no taper tho. It also has a much more unique or handmade look to it than any of my other SG2 knives. Check the dragon or snake scale pattern and wavy cladding line.
Get both… we’re enablers here.
They are both great cutters and ridiculously TBE. Maybe even fragile (yes micro bevel for the workplace). In my apple test the slight edge goes to the Yoshi but the Nigara is no slouch. Both about the same with cucumbers w a hint to the nigara since it has a baby shinogi step. Stiction is an issue for the yoshi no doubt. Sharpening is ease win for skd. Easy rec for the Yoshikane aside from corrosion factor. It’s a KKF fav for good reason- it’s a fantastic knife in the price category.
At KKF there’s not a lot talk about SS but that nigara is a really nice knife. The grind is super thin and a hint concave/hint but not kurosaki extreme (concave). Feels pretty stiff, no taper tho. It also has a much more unique or handmade look to it than any of my other SG2 knives. Check the dragon or snake scale pattern and wavy cladding line.
Get both… we’re enablers here.
A. The Kaeru SLD is awesome. I think Wakui is doing those for JNS
B. Do we think Heiji’s semi is a version of SKD12..? Seems logical. It def patinas. Good stuff.
B. Do we think Heiji’s semi is a version of SKD12..? Seems logical. It def patinas. Good stuff.
Last edited:
inferno
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) <*))))><
also i have another knife that could be interesting. akifusa pm. they are made out of srs15 steel at 65hrc or so. this is really kick ass steel.
my santoku is very thin, slim and light. it felt flimsy at first but it can handle the abuse i've learned. its also not a damascus blade so its easier to keep nice looking.
my santoku is very thin, slim and light. it felt flimsy at first but it can handle the abuse i've learned. its also not a damascus blade so its easier to keep nice looking.
My Akifusa AS gyuto seems to always come back to the top of my usage. It's just a great knife. I keep thinking I need to try one of their PM offerings.
SLD-Magic and SLD12 have surprisingly similar carbide volumes. SLD magic does average lower than SLD12 by about 3% volume but depending on HT they could have pretty similar carbide volumes. Either way seems like cool stuff probably worth a try.There is also SLD-Magic or SLD8, but I haven't seen it in knives. Hitachi claims about it are suspect to me going by its supposed composition as they claim 35% higher wear resistance due to higher hardness. Seems like a lot going from 58-60 to 60-62 HRC, plus SLD-Magic should have less carbides, so..... maybe there is some magic there
To be fair this is listing general industry standards. In individual manufacturers have very tight tolerances for what they call SKD 11 or D2. An example of this in the US is W2 which has a huge spec but everything that NJSB gets has very tight tolerances even between different melts of the steel. It's not like the manufacturer puts anywhere between 1.4 and 1.6% carbon in and they don't really know. They pick the balances that they think will perform the best. Thus SLD is likely just the balanced picked by Hitachi that they picked and then publish the exact composition to claim that the tolerances are tighter even though they are comparing apples and oranges.
Looking more carefully I see what they did with their broshure. They claim improvement in wear resistance over some 8% chromium steel not over skd11/SLD. This makes more sense, even though they don't specify which 8% chromium steel, but at least they don't claim significant improvement over skd11. When they claim improved toughness they compare to skd11. This too makes sense since the difference between the two seems to be 8% Cr vs 12% with everything else basically same.
Se1ryu
Senior Member
Do you Nakagawa Ginsan Gyuto?? I wonder how the knife cuts compare to Yoshikane SKD?? I own Ginsanko steel Santoku by Shigeki Tanaka. Is great steel but i prefer high carbon like cutting feel.
Maybe you can help me decide
Do you Nakagawa Ginsan Gyuto?? I wonder how the knife cuts compare to Yoshikane SKD?? I own Ginsanko steel Santoku by Shigeki Tanaka. Is great steel but i prefer high carbon like cutting feel.
Maybe you can help me decide
Best way to decide is to buy both. Then a couple more. Then a few more after that.
