Soft Arkansas Stone Renaissance: Right Now?

[Rangen]

Is the Soft Ark the most underrated knife stone on the planet? I've thought so for some time. It's hard to find anyone who gets excited about these stones, and I think they are great.

Until very recently, I owned one soft Arkansas stone, a Dan's 8x3x1/2 that, if you wanted one for yourself today, would set you back $72.26.

It's really really good. It is just raspy enough to give excellent feedback. It puts an edge on a kitchen knife that is the perfect toothy-but-sharp edge. It's maybe not quite as good as the vintage Washitas I chase from time to time, especially the one I found with the Soft label, but nearly so, at far less cost. And just try to find a 3" wide Washita.

So I thought I'd search for a vintage Pike soft Ark, expecting that to be the ultimate expression of the soft Ark, and I found one. I don't like it much so far. It is finer than the Dan's, has less feedback, is harder to sharpen on, and I haven't mastered it enough yet to get an edge I can get excited about.

The question I wanted to raise is this: is it possible that we are now living through the Renaissance of the Soft Ark? That Dan's has miraculously good soft arks, better than what has come before, available now in a variety of sizes, up to and including 12x3x1, and almost no one cares? 50 years from now, will people be seeking out these stones, paying JNat prices, and wondering why we fools did not appreciate them when they were plentiful and reasonably priced?

It seems possible to me.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You can place me square in the devout, multi-decades, Soft Ark fan club!

I've been using them since I was a kid and have had periods that they were my only stone, or sometimes I might've had a Crystolon too.

I have sharpened a boatload of knives on Soft Arks and have even used them quite successfully on multiple VG-10 blades and the usual German fare as well. I've had a variety of them and from different producers/vendors and by and large I've found them all to be good. I have noticed some quality variance in surface finishing and for sure variation in the behavior of some individual stones. Some of the modern ones can be shaky. But for the most part, I've had good luck and most have had that amazing blend of coarse and fine that is hard to describe if one has never used them.

There's no doubt Dan's is top notch.

I prefer to use my Arks with oil and I think that is the limiter that keeps people from trying them out. I think that's a shame. You just need a small amount and it can soak in. Don't need it slathered like we do with water stones.

A Hard Ark is my primary finishing stone on various carbons like shirogami and aogami and also for stainless like ginsan.

 

[Legion74]

Years ago a lot of the stones which we would now call a soft Ark would probably have been labeled and sold as Washita, though the washita name found its way on to stones with a pretty wide range of specific gravity.

I have a 10" calico soft Ark which I quite like for kitchen knives. It removes steel quickly, and leave some good teeth. Generally I'll use it to sharpen, then give the edge a quick polish and debur using a finer stone like a Lynn Idwal, BBW, ToS, etc.

 

[stringer]

Soft arks and washitas are my favorite knife stones. I am a big fan.

 

[sanmateo]

I’ve been looking at Arkansas stones a while, but there are two things holding me back:
1) silica (Novaculite) is slower than alumina (most waterstones), especially with high alloy steels
2) would have to be careful to avoid contamination if switching between oilstones and waterstones

@stringer @Legion74 you guys use them with water or oil?

 

[Legion74]

I’ve been looking at Arkansas stones a while, but there are two things holding me back:
1) silica (Novaculite) is slower than alumina (most waterstones), especially with high alloy steels
2) would have to be careful to avoid contamination if switching between oilstones and waterstones

@stringer @Legion74 you guys use them with water or oil?

Oil.

I've never had a problem with cross contamination. You wipe the oil off the stones when you finish, and if they don't have their own box (most of mine do) then I keep them in felt sleeves when in storage.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I’ve been looking at Arkansas stones a while, but there are two things holding me back:
1) silica (Novaculite) is slower than alumina (most waterstones), especially with high alloy steels
2) would have to be careful to avoid contamination if switching between oilstones and waterstones

@stringer @Legion74 you guys use them with water or oil?

I use mine with water here and there, usually for a quick touch up.

I keep my oil stones separate from my water stones and just make sure to clean up between them but I really don't go between them much. I either can do it with my oils or I do it with my waters.

They are not great for sharpening higher alloy steels. They can be good for a refined finish but not the best at establishing an edge.

A couple economical options here: https://danswhetstone.com/product/specials-soft-arkansas-medium/

 

[stringer]

I’ve been looking at Arkansas stones a while, but there are two things holding me back:
1) silica (Novaculite) is slower than alumina (most waterstones), especially with high alloy steels
2) would have to be careful to avoid contamination if switching between oilstones and waterstones

@stringer @Legion74 you guys use them with water or oil?

Either. Oil is better but water works fine in a pinch. I don't really use water stones for knives anymore. Only straight razors. Mostly use diamonds and naturals for knives. But I've never worried much about contamination. All of my stones are just stacked loose here and there. I rinse them and dry them before stacking them up. But that's about it.

 

[cotedupy]

Is the Soft Ark the most underrated knife stone on the planet?

Certainly a contender for that title (imo). Especially given the price.

So I thought I'd search for a vintage Pike soft Ark, expecting that to be the ultimate expression of the soft Ark, and I found one. I don't like it much so far. It is finer than the Dan's, has less feedback, is harder to sharpen on, and I haven't mastered it enough yet to get an edge I can get excited about.

The question I wanted to raise is this: is it possible that we are now living through the Renaissance of the Soft Ark? That Dan's has miraculously good soft arks, better than what has come before, available now in a variety of sizes, up to and including 12x3x1, and almost no one cares? 50 years from now, will people be seeking out these stones, paying JNat prices, and wondering why we fools did not appreciate them when they were plentiful and reasonably priced?

Now these are interesting observations...

The stones that Pike and Norton sold as 'Soft Arkansas' back in the day, are what most companies now would sell as 'Hard Arkansas'. I would wager the SG of your Pike stone would be in the region of 2.45 - 2.60.

And those old P-N stones are not as good for kitchen knife edges as the often multi-coloured, very cheap, soft arks that you can pick up from other companies nowadays. These cheaper, 'newer' stones are significantly less dense, and faster in use, giving lovely edges with a perfect combination of bite and refinement. I personally believe this type of stone is (almost certainly) the same as what Griswold calls 'Calico Washitas' in the 1892 Geological Survey of Arkansas. Note that at the time, the term 'Sot Arkansas' did not exist.

They may not be quite as good as the best Washitas, but I certainly have some that I prefer to some Washies I've had. Plus they're cheaper and more readily available than ‘real’ Washitas.

If we're talking simply about edge sharpening of double-bevel kitchen knives; a $30 Soft Ark is going to be better than basically any jnat at any price.

 

[F-Flash]

https://www.dictum.com/en/sharpenin...ng-stone-hard-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711571?c=12255

Would this be worth a try?

Edit. Or https://www.dictum.com/en/shaping-stones-k50-500/arkansas-shaping-stone-soft-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711570

 

[cotedupy]

https://www.dictum.com/en/sharpenin...ng-stone-hard-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711571?c=12255

Would this be worth a try?

Edit. Or https://www.dictum.com/en/shaping-stones-k50-500/arkansas-shaping-stone-soft-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711570

I’d say the second one (Soft) would certainly be.

Ignore the grit ratings they give there. The stones finish significantly higher than that if compared to JIS, because of the hardness, structure, and way novaculite is formed.

 

[Legion74]

https://www.dictum.com/en/sharpenin...ng-stone-hard-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711571?c=12255

Would this be worth a try?

Edit. Or https://www.dictum.com/en/shaping-stones-k50-500/arkansas-shaping-stone-soft-205-x-50-x-13-mm-711570

Sometimes you need to be careful with mystery brand soft Arks. I've had similar looking stones to that soft and they are VERY soft, almost like pumice. Sometimes they look white with pink swirls, which I call raspberry ripple Arks. The one I bought like that also had a big sand pocket inclusion that had to be dug out.

If you are looking for a stone and don't want to pay Dans prices (his international shipping is a bit of a killer) try to find someone in Europe selling Smiths or RH Prayda soft Arks. The stones of those brands I've used have been OK.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I would probably avoid those ones. I've had similar looking stones to those and they are VERY soft, almost like pumice. Sometimes they look white with pink swirls, which I call raspberry ripple Arks. The one I bought also had a big sand pocket inclusion that had to be dug out.

If you are looking for a stone and don't want to pay Dans prices (his international shipping is a bit of a killer) try to find someone in Europe selling Smiths or RH Prayda soft Arks. The stones of those brands I've used have been OK.

I bought several stones from old man R. Hall. Still have one or two around here. He is the RH behind today's RH Preyda. He sold the business and they kept his initials out of respect and some brand recognition. I've always had good luck with them.

 

[cotedupy]

Sometimes you need to be careful with mystery brand soft Arks. I've had similar looking stones to that soft and they are VERY soft, almost like pumice. Sometimes they look white with pink swirls, which I call raspberry ripple Arks. The one I bought like that also had a big sand pocket inclusion that had to be dug out.

If you are looking for a stone and don't want to pay Dans prices (his international shipping is a bit of a killer) try to find someone in Europe selling Smiths or RH Prayda soft Arks. The stones of those brands I've used have been OK.

Dictum innit!

Should be good.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Sigh. Buncha bloody enablers

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Sigh. Buncha bloody enablers

View attachment 379727

FWIW, I find I can get away with laxative grade mineral oil on Softs. I do prefer honing oil (just more refined mineral oil) for Hard and Black. Either way, I like to use droppers to help control the volume and just keep things a little cleaner overall.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BG...d_r=996bbda4-4e39-4d65-8fbc-4b215dac5db9&th=1

 

[SwampDonkey]

FWIW, I find I can get away with laxative grade mineral oil on Softs. I do prefer honing oil (just more refined mineral oil) for Hard and Black. Either way, I like to use droppers to help control the volume and just keep things a little cleaner overall.

I tried that route with my washita but never loved it vs honing oil. At least the jug from CVS I've been working through for like 3 years is fairly viscous. Assume all the other laxative grade mineral oils are like that or is it just this particular producer?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I tried that route with my washita but never loved it vs honing oil. At least the jug from CVS I've been working through for like 3 years is fairly viscous. Assume all the other laxative grade mineral oils are like that or is it just this particular producer?

They're all pretty viscous. I prefer honing oil on all my Arks. I just find that the Softs tolerate the thicker oil better and people can get it easy enough.

 

[Rangen]

They're all pretty viscous. I prefer honing oil on all my Arks. I just find that the Softs tolerate the thicker oil better and people can get it easy enough.

Norton Honing Oil is quite easy to find, at least in the U.S. It's my favorite, because the viscosity feels just right, and, crucially, it has no smell at all.

 

[Rangen]

Sigh. Buncha bloody enablers

Oh, you love it.

I hope you will post a report on your experience with it.

 

[NickMinton]

Soft arks and washitas are my favorite knife stones. I am a big fan.

You???! No way!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Norton Honing Oil is quite easy to find, at least in the U.S. It's my favorite, because the viscosity feels just right, and, crucially, it has no smell at all.

Yep. Got a jug of it myself.

 

[pavhav]

I've been following @stringer 's suggestion of using food grade propylene glycol on oilstones and really prefer it to any of the oils. Such an easy cleanup in comparison.

 

[Up_dog128]

I tried that route with my washita but never loved it vs honing oil. At least the jug from CVS I've been working through for like 3 years is fairly viscous. Assume all the other laxative grade mineral oils are like that or is it just this particular producer?

You can thin the mineral oil yourself with citrus solvent or odorless mineral spirits (or regular odiferous mineral spirits) at a rate of about 2 parts oil to one part solvent. Tho I'd start with less solvent and work your way up to desired consistency. I've actually been meaning to try using Simple green as a thinner, just haven't got around to it yet.
You can also get a thinner mineral oil at a tractor supply/feed store, as it's used as livestock feed.
Or you can use propylene glycol.
I don't really like the feeling of sharpening on the thick stuff. And I've found that when using the thicker mineral oils (like from a pharmacy), sometimes the blade seems to float on the stone, especially when there is a lot of steel trying to contact the stone (like when thinning or when sharpening a Scandi grind).

Edit: Just saw that pavhav beat me to the punch with recommending the PG

 

[SwampDonkey]

Definitely got that floaty feeling from the laxative oil, good way to describe it. $10 for 16 oz of honing oil is fine by me, to avoid messing with all that. The bulk mineral oil was just for new cutting board hydration anyway

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Keep in mind, the stone shouldn't really be wet. You just need enough to keep the swarf from clogging the face.

 

[Legion74]

The laxative stuff tends to usually be thicker, I suppose it makes it easier to pour into a spoon and swallow.

The mineral oil I use is sold as a water tank sealant, and is a bit thinner, which I presume makes it spread across the surface of the water more thinly and evenly. It works pretty well for honing, and I also use it as a light machine oil as well.

 

[SwampDonkey]

1) this Dan's turned pretty once I added oil. This before any steel touched it

2) holy crap. Sharpened my 280 Okubo on it and really enjoyed the feedback, was fast, and put a vicious edge on it. I chased a burr for a few flips longer than what I would on a coti but it was also my first time sharpening this knife. I'm exceedingly impressed

 

[Seemore]

1) this Dan's turned pretty once I added oil. This before any steel touched it

View attachment 380398

2) holy crap. Sharpened my 280 Okubo on it and really enjoyed the feedback, was fast, and put a vicious edge on it. I chased a burr for a few flips longer than what I would on a coti but it was also my first time sharpening this knife. I'm exceedingly impressed

The earlier picture appears as this stone but in a SharpeningSupplies box - do they just repackage Dan’s stones, or?

 

[stringer]

The earlier picture appears as this stone but in a SharpeningSupplies box - do they just repackage Dan’s stones, or?

Yes, they do. All of their sharpening supplies branded stuff is private label from manufacturers like Dan's and Norton.