Some advice on thinning project please.

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by Chuckles, Mar 21, 2016.

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  1. Mar 21, 2016 #1

    Chuckles

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    The project is a Misono Dragon 270 suji. I am asking for opinions cause it's not mine and I don't know the owner personally. So it could be awkward if I blow it.

    It had a protruding heel. I addressed that with a sawing motion on a DMT plate. It left a flat square edge that was thick, thick, thick. The choil made it look like it needed to be practically reground. I started with a 220 grit something or other, then Bester 500, and King 800 is where I am at now.

    My question is the scratches that are behind what I guess is turning into the secondary bevel. How do I address them? With sandpaper? or should I continue with stones that far up? My next stone would be a gesshin 2k or a green brick or a natural red aoto. I would feel fine using sandpaper if it wasn't for the dragon engraving that I don't want to mess up. I also think it would look a little strange for the area around the dragon to have vertical grind marks while the rest of the blade was finished horizontally.

    Are those scratches a sure shine of a crappy sharpener or do they happen to pros?

    I took them to mean that the blade road was beginning to flatten out and that it would be a more blended transition from the flat blade face to what is going to be convexing to what will be the edge eventually.

    My next step would be to take where the thinning line is and basically cut it in half and start in again working toward the edge, then blend the two together and then put a final cutting edge on it. Hope that makes sense to somebody.

    Here are some crappy pics of where I am at so far. All opinions very welcome! And thanks in advance.

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  2. Mar 21, 2016 #2

    Jovidah

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    Not so much advice but more...my own experience. I managed to get it polished just fine with stones, but I ended up going all over the place. It's real easy to slip at some point and get a scratch at the top somewhere. So if you want to go with stones and don't want any blemishes on top I'd definitly recommend taping the top half... unless you're certain you're not as rubbish as me. :)
    Also take in mind that it'll always 'show'. Even if you polish it, it'll show as being better polished than the rest of the blade. Though not sure that's a bad thing. What worked best for me in at least keeping things somewhat confined in how 'high' the scratches go is using a sharpening/thinning style more akin to what the Korin guy uses in his sharpening videos. So more lengthwise to the stone instead of the 'sharpening by sections' style.

    But again; that's just the things I ran into as a rather inexperienced sharpener so don't put too much worth on my words. :)
     
  3. Mar 21, 2016 #3

    Chuckles

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    Tape. That would have been a good idea.
     
  4. Mar 21, 2016 #4

    Jovidah

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    Yea... I always forget about it until after I get scratches all over the place...:biggrin:
     
  5. Mar 21, 2016 #5

    Benuser

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    It gets a patina anyway that will smoothen the scratches.
     
  6. Mar 21, 2016 #6

    Chuckles

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    If it were my knife I wouldn't really care as long as it cut well. In fact I have a Misono Dragon gyuto that looks way worse. But the guy who owns this will judge it immediately upon seeing it I'm sure. If I understand it correctly it is his baby. I didn't expect it to get so fat behind the edge so fast.
     
  7. Mar 21, 2016 #7

    Benuser

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    With the sujihiki only the first 1/4" is relevant.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2016 #8

    Chuckles

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    1/4" is where the work is being done. I am leaning towards sandpaper right now. Really want this done.
     
  9. Mar 22, 2016 #9

    Dardeau

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    How deep is the dragon? Will it sand out if you sand lightly on it?
     
  10. Mar 22, 2016 #10

    Chuckles

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    I'll try it out on my gyuto and see what happens.
     
  11. Mar 22, 2016 #11

    Dardeau

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    Maybe you can do it light enough that it gets the scratches going the right direction without obliterating the dragon.
     
  12. Mar 22, 2016 #12

    Smurfmacaw

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    Send it to Broida.....why torture yourself? His work is immaculate and reasonable.
     
  13. Mar 22, 2016 #13

    Chuckles

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    What I should have done and will do in the future is say no to fixing knives for people I don't know. At least maybe MY Misono may come out of this looking better.
     
  14. Mar 22, 2016 #14

    Dardeau

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    Worst thing is you buy him a new dragon for less than 200 bucks, JCK has it to you in a week, and you get a new, dragonless sujihiki
     
  15. Mar 22, 2016 #15

    Von blewitt

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    If the guy loves it so much he should be happy that you restored the performance, if he cares more about the appearance/dragon then he should learn to maintain his own knives. My guess is the issue came about from improper steeling?
     
  16. Mar 22, 2016 #16

    Smurfmacaw

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    Since I like sharpening knives (therapeutic for me to rub steel against stone) I offer my friends and neighbors the opportunity to have their knives sharpened. if they are crap I reject them....I tell them in advance that german knives with full bolsters are not "fun" and I'll be happy to improve the edge but that's it.....I also tell them that if the knife needs significant thinning ....NO! unless it's a really nice knife...i.e. not German or other crap. If i need to spend three or four hours thinning, and then make it look nice then there better be something in it for me (i.e. the satisfaction of a job well done or well....). If only an edge however, no problem....I've found that most people never get to the "thinning" stage so I don't have to worry about it. I told my next door neighbor the same thing and she brought a whole drawer of knives over.....found two that weren't total crap. Lent her a nice stainless gyuto to try for a bit and now I don't think there will be any more crappy knife problems. Her husband talked to me tonight and asked where they could get some more knives like the one I lent them. They aren't poor so I think I converted them.
     
  17. Mar 22, 2016 #17

    Chuckles

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    Turns out you don't have to worry about the dragon. I wrapped sandpaper around a nagura from the JKI diamond stones and it worked well. Didn't get out all of the original vertical grinder marks but the thinning mess cleaned up quick.

    Thanks for the input guys.

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    image.jpg
     
  18. Mar 22, 2016 #18

    spoiledbroth

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    Honesty I think if the guy is anything but happy you worked on the knife for him I'd be surprised.
     
  19. Mar 22, 2016 #19

    Chuckles

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    Here is how the choil worked out. Meh..

    image.jpeg
     
  20. Mar 22, 2016 #20

    spoiledbroth

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    sorry if this is a nub question but did you thin on both sides? I noticed all the pictures in the thread seem to be of the right hand side? and choil shots.
     
  21. Mar 22, 2016 #21

    Jovidah

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    Looks great... I think you've just proven that your method works heaps better than trying to polish it out on the stones!
     
  22. Mar 22, 2016 #22

    Von blewitt

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    Now we need to see your Gyuto post spa
     
  23. Mar 22, 2016 #23

    Chuckles

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    There are some vertical marks on the gyuto from a brief but scarring encounter with a belt sander that I am not sure I have the patience to remove. If my kid plays at the neighbor's house after school today I'll give it a go and post the results.
     
  24. Mar 22, 2016 #24

    Chuckles

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    Here is the gyuto. This knife has seen quite a bit over the years. It deserved a little love.

    image.jpg
     
  25. Mar 22, 2016 #25

    Benuser

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    The question has been raised about thinning on both sides. Even a highly asymmetric blade as the Misono should be thinned on the -- flat -- left side as well, just to have it cut straight. Once steering has been eliminated, take the same amount of time for thinning on both sides. A useful rule of thumb Dave formulated IIRC.
     
  26. Mar 23, 2016 #26

    Smurfmacaw

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    I saw the same asymmetry....are you another wrong handed Canuk lol.
     
  27. Mar 23, 2016 #27

    Chuckles

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    I didn't thin on the back side much. Thinning the back side gets wierd quick in my experience. My tendency is to focus on the dominant side and then adjust it just as much as necessary after its performance can be evaluated. If it was a clad knife I probably would have been much more worried.
     
  28. Mar 23, 2016 #28

    James

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    Looks fantastic. If you don't mind me asking, what grit progression did you use?
     
  29. Mar 23, 2016 #29

    Chuckles

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    Thinning was 220, 500, 800, 2000
    Sharpening was 1k, 6k, balsa w/ .5m chromium oxide

    Sanding was p220 and then a piece I found that had no numbers on it but it felt smoother so I used it and it worked.

    Technique from Nick Wheeler. Don't let his baby face fool you, he is a serious badass.

    [video=youtube_share;4I4x4QLpfnk]http://youtu.be/4I4x4QLpfnk[/video]
     
  30. Mar 23, 2016 #30

    RDalman

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    This thread was good read. Great job chuckles, and I agree, Nick is the man...
     

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