Quantcast

Spirograph Nakiri WIP.

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Im gona do a mini WIP on this one. Its my take on a Nakiri. :D

Randy Jr forged me this kick butt billet of Spirograph damascus a few months back. and I have been trying to figure out what pattern blade to make that would really show off the pattern of the damascus, A few guys on the board made some suggestions and after doing some research, I settled on a Nakiri.

This will have a western/Wa handle Ala Delbert Ealy (I asked him if I could try his method and he graciously said I could) Hope I do it justice.

The specs so far.

OAL 358mm or 14 1/8 inches.
BLADE 210mm or 8 3/8 inches
Thickness 2.5mm ish Thinking I may surface grind this down to about 2mm Open to suggestions.
Heel height 56mm or 2 3/16 inches. tapering slightly to50mm one inch behind the front of the blade.
Handle will be 130mm ish long with the front at 24mm and the back tapering to 28mm

This is my first attempt at this pattern blade and I gota say, It went against every fiber in my being to not have a tip or a point on this.. lol Yet after looking at hundreds of pictures and reading everything I can find about the knife. I had to give it a try!

So far I have the Blade Heat treated and rough profiled. I may still make some minor changes to the profile to make the knife better, and am open to suggestions. Currently it feels good on the board, with a very gentle roll from the front to the heel.

I have a few questions??

For the main bevels, I was thinking flat grinds. Taking them a little over half the height of the blade. But may take the grinds all the way to the spine. :cool2: Should the grind and cutting edge continue up the flat at the tip/front of the blade?

Would 2mm thickness be preferable? or should I leave it at 2.55mm?

Any and all other suggestions of changes or modifications that will make this a better cutter are welcomed! :wink:


Im gona wait a couple days to see what you guys think and if any changes are in order B4 I move forward on this project..

Thanks for looking. and stay tuned. Ill be adding WIP pics and info.

Stay Sharp
Randy, HHH knives



Whats on the bench 009.JPG


Whats on the bench 031.JPG
 

TB_London

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
990
Reaction score
64
Looking funky :D
I'd put in some distal taper keeping it around 2.5 at the handle down to 1mm towards the tip. On my nakiri the bevels go just under halfway up the blade face and I like the way it cuts, haven't tried a fully ground one though so I may like that more.......
The edge doesn't extend up the flat front of the knife, when I've seen this it's on meat cleavers/butchery knives.
Hopefully someone with a carter or a shige nakiri will chime in, they seem to be the best regarded
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
Totally funky! :D

2.5 at the heel is perfectly good. The front doesn't need an edge. As for the bevel height .... I might be thinking the wrong thing or getting my terminologies mixed up, but I think you'll probably end up with something that feels better in the hand if you have a spine to edge taper going the whole way with the actual "cutting bevel" (that could well be a flat bevel) starting at 5mm out from the edge itself. I hope I'm not making things worse with my kludgy description :)

If you're thinking about going flat faced for the top half, with a "shinogi" kind of separation between top and bottom half... that'd be pretty different from what I've used. Might work a-ok in terms of cutting, but I wonder if the extra mass would do something odd with the feel and handling.
 

bcrano

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
263
Reaction score
0
Whoa Randy that looks awesome. What a piece of steel. I like the shape and geometry also. Really nice... Color me unsurprised!
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Thanks guys! Funky sounds about right!!! :D

OK so basically spine thickness of 2.5mm at the heel tapering down to 1sh near the front .. Got it.. :)

Len, I think you saying full grinds. Thats what It seems like your describing? In most of the photos I have seen, The grind or main bevels are about half height. Yet I think most of the pics were showing single bevel knives. So the half height grind makes sense..
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
I think I'm describing a full grind :) Gradual taper from spine to edge, but still with a slightly more obtuse final bevel nearer to the edge. Gotta love the imprecision of laymen trying to communicate :D

A nakiri is definitely a double-bevel knife, though. A single bevel would mean a usuba, a very different beast in terms of geometry and behaviour. Nakiri are great knives to use anyhow, in my opinion :)
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Got it, Your description is right on, Just making sure. IMO having a full grind will make for a better cutting tool with less drag.. :) Thanks Len for your input.

Its a KNIFE LIFE!
Randy
 

JohnnyChance

Founding Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
3,418
Reaction score
14
You don't need a cutting edge on the front edge.

2.5mm at the spine above the heel is fine, just have plenty of distal taper towards the tip and thinner towards the cutting edge. It can even taper drastically at the spine in the first inch or so from 2.5mm to 2mm or less. Convex/blended bevels the entire blade face from spine to edge. The single bevel knives you saw with a tall bevel on the right hand side of the knife is for a usuba. Similar overall shape, but very different in grind and use. You basically want to grind this the same as you would a gyuto/chefs knife.

Profile looks good and choil looks comfy!
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Thanks for the input guys. If theres no other info you guys feel will be important, I can move to the next step on this one! :)
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
Randy, I just checked 3 of my nakiri to check on their geometries.

1 is basically flat ground from spine towards the edge, then pretty abruptly about 1cm from the edge changes to the actual cutting bevel. It's not a smooth transition at all on this one. It doesn't sound great, but this is actually the one I use most often, so it still works well.

The other 2 are similar to each other in that they are very gradually full-ground convex. There's no abrupt transition, but the "apex" of the convex, as it were, is about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way to the edge and you can see a very different angle on that last 1/3 or 1/4. One of these two is, in fact, a Shigefusa.

There is no appreciable difference in their spine widths over the heel. In any case, all three taper as you move towards the "tip".

Hope that helps!

Len
 

TB_London

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
990
Reaction score
64
The picture of c-dawg's nakiri shows the cutting bevel and the blade face bevels quite well IMO! Though not sure how much taper has been forged in to the top part

Shigefusa Nakiri
It may just be personal preference but I like a more robust nakiri as I use it for a lot of tougher veg, kabocha squash, rutabaga, sweet potato etc

Whatever you come up with I'm sure will excel though, it's a case of finding what works for what you have :D
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
I don't know if that's the stock geometry, but it looks like it ought to cut nicely :)
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
That mirror bevel is SWEET!

Im ready to grind some bevels in this blade! Thanks guys for the input!
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Made some progress on this today. I ground the main bevels and have the blade hand rubbed and etched ready for handles!!!

Thanks Len and everyone for the info and pics and stuff! Made a huge difference on the grind..

Here are a few pics of the progress.



Heres a shot of the tip, What ya think? thin enough???? :) Yea, I know my hands are dirty, I wouldnt want it any other way!! lol







Spirograph WIP Nakiri 006.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 005.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 009.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 012.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 013.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 019.JPG


Spirograph WIP Nakiri 031.JPG
 

WildBoar

Home cook, knife accumulator
Founding Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,668
Reaction score
806
Location
NoVa (US)
absol-freakin'-awesome!
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
:D

Now I just gota figure out my handle materials. and layout. Im thinking something subtle. or at least subtle for me. :)
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
I think this thing is gonna be a niiiiice cutter :)
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Len, I think your right!!!
This is the craziest knife I have ever ground. I have a feeling that with the taper and bevels on this thing are gona make it one of the sharpest knives I have ever made! :)
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Iv spent the last couple hours in mind warp. looking at woods and handle materials trying to figure out a combination that works with this blade.

Im thinking Black G10 or horn for the furrel, and something subtle in figure and light in color like some of the Royal mahogany. OMG I just dont know..

heres my delema. The blade pattern is SO BOLD I want it to stand as the center point for the knife, So Subtle and plain handle seems the logical choice.. Yet, subtle and plain is so NOT WHAT I DO! lol.. Which is making this harder then it should be.. OK so here I go.. Im asking you guys for some suggestions.

Either a Dark handle with smallish light color furrel, Or a Light color handle with a dark/black furel? Or should I go supercutom, and use some of my sickest cocobolo burl and some ebony for the furrel?
 

Andrew H

The alleles created by mutation may be beneficial
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
1
The customer left it up to you? I would let the spirograph stand out, but that's just my opinion.
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
This one is not spoken for yet. Its more of a Just because I can knife.. It will be available on my web site when done, or if anyone is interested in this sweet blade, Let me know.. :) (shameless plug)

So your thinking is in line with what I was thinking, subtle and under spoken handle allowing the blade to be the boss! Thanks for your input
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Round Wa handle or octagon? Being my first Wa style shaped handle, Im just curious as to what everyone's preference is and why?
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Made some progress on this today. I ground the main bevels and have the blade hand rubbed and etched ready for handles!!!

Thanks Len and everyone for the info and pics and stuff! Made a huge difference on the grind..

Here are a few pics of the progress.



Heres a shot of the tip, What ya think? thin enough???? :) Yea, I know my hands are dirty, I wouldnt want it any other way!! lol












You would think having all the wood that I have amassed over the years that choosing a handle material would be easy. Its not! lol I spent many hours and sometimes days until something speaks to me, may sound crazy, but its how I work. Here is what I came up with as a handle combination after all day in the shop looking through literally hundreds of pieces of what I would consider the finest examples of each species and in some cases multiple of each species. Trying to pic just 2 that will complement this blade and be subtle yet all HHH in its flair and beauty..
What ya guys think?



Handle for Nakiri 003.JPG
 

echerub

Founding Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
0
I think that would be quite nice. The near-vertical pattern in the main handle wood goes nicely with the spirograph pattern. It keeps the whole thing coherent, as it were.
 

Andrew H

The alleles created by mutation may be beneficial
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
1
Octagon wa, you want the edges rounded off though obviously. I like them, and they are snazzy. :viking:
 

HHH Knives

Founding Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
5,604
Reaction score
244
Location
USA, Michigan
Well, After much consideration, and a little inspiration from the fish thread. I chose a handle.. Buckeye Burl.

Sry about the bad pics. Ill get better ones after I finish hand sanding this and polishing it out. :)



http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3417&d=1325476923]/IMG]

[ATTACH=full]3417[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3418[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3419[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3420[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3421[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3422[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]3423[/ATTACH]
 

Attachments

Andrew H

The alleles created by mutation may be beneficial
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
1
Beautiful work, Randy.
 
Top