SS Clad Blue #2 Toyama!!

[Tanalasta]

On another note, does anybody know what the greasy sealant JNS uses on this knife to seal the gap between the tang and the handle?

 

[Matus]

Could be simply pure wax that is heated before the application.

 

[dan]

Compared the knives a little tonight. The stainless clad is a bit thicker at the spine where the blade meets the handle:

I tried to show the measurement but my stainless clad knife (left) is about 4.5mm while the iron clad knife (on the right) is closer to 3.5mm. About halfway down the knives' lengths they are about the same thickness at the spine and remain nearly identical the rest of the way (with that sexy distal taper). For reference:

Again the stainless is on the left and the iron-clad on the right. Finally, to address my comment earlier about the slight profile difference:

It might be tough to see but indeed, as @labor of love pointed out the shorter one (stainless clad, top) is a bit flatter. The cladding terminates a little differently at the tip, too, which I think was part of my perceived difference.

But to the question that was posed earlier about how they cut... I've loved it so far. Every cut has been silky smooth. The stainless is a little thinner behind the edge and slices right through everything. Food barely sticks to the knife and if it does stick can almost always be removed with a little wrist flicking. So far I've only cut a few pounds of potatoes, just under a bunch of celery, 2 pounds green beans, 2 onions.

Edge reactivity is about the same as the iron-clad in my experience so far.

 

[valgard]

Don't know if you all have noticed but not long ago Watanabe started selling Stainless clad blue 2 gyutos... beyond the 180mm that used to be the hard limit... talk about coincidences . One more to the list (let's not forget both prices increased a 15 or 20% at the same time too last year...

 

[labor of love]

I’d just go with whichever is cheaper tbh

 

[valgard]

I’d just go with whichever is cheaper tbh

yup

 

[dan]

Where are the stainless Wats?

 

[labor of love]

Look under professional section on watanabes site

 

[dan]

Fair enough (link for the curious), looks like the Wat is a bit cheaper (~$400 vs $430 for the Toyama). I didn't realize there was such a strong... shall we say correlation... between Toyama and Watanabe.

 

[labor of love]

It’s nothing new. Toyama is like 200 years old so his knives cost more.

 

[valgard]

[emoji23]

 

[dan]

I think he is getting younger... when I first saw the JNS pages I think they said he is 77. Now he is 75. Incredible. The man is his own legend.

 

[Tanalasta]

The 240mmm stainless blue crept back into stock. And disappeared again. I wonder if JNS is putting them online one at a time. He’s back from being away now. I’m looking forward to comparing the 240mm with the 210mm.

The Kasumi 240 in stock atm

 

[Sharpchef]

Don't know if you all have noticed but not long ago Watanabe started selling Stainless clad blue 2 gyutos... beyond the 180mm that used to be the hard limit... talk about coincidences . One more to the list (let's not forget both prices increased a 15 or 20% at the same time too last year...

Watanabe sells stainless clad knifes in his Pro Line for many years ! ...

Greets Sebastian.

 

[Matus]

I find it a bit surprising that people still find the correlation between Watanabe and Toyama surprising - Watanabe trained under Toyama and they cooperate until today. All that comes directly from Maxim and was stated several times already on KKF.

In case of their stainless clad knives - unless something has changed, they are forged from pre-clad stock. In the past Watanabe only offered knives in sizes up to 180 in stainless clad, because the stock he could get did not allow larger knives. That has apparently changed recently.

 

[Garm]

I think the surprise factor whas that awhile back many of these statements/assumptions attributed to both parties were put under closer scrutiny, which rocked a few people on the forum to their core it seemed. This is not intended to start new controversy, but read Maxim's posts starting at nr.96 and on.. Now add this to the fact that Watanabe suddenly started offering stainless clad gyutos above 180mm length at the same time Toyama started producing these, like people above have mentioned
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/tf-or-watanabe.38102/page-4

 

[parbaked]

I find it a bit surprising that people still find the correlation between Watanabe and Toyama surprising - Watanabe trained under Toyama and they cooperate until today. All that comes directly from Maxim and was stated several times already on KKF.

I find it a bit surprising that you would say this when Maxim actually states the opposite...that Toyama never trained Watanabe.
See Maxim's replies (#96 & 103) in the above referenced thread:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/tf-or-watanabe.38102/page-4

FWIW I believe Shinichi when he says he learned from Toyama and that they cooperate, but it is definitely not the story that Maxim tells....

 

[labor of love]

off topic he said she said gossip isn’t really pertinent to a stainless clad Toyama thread.

 

[valgard]

Watanabe sells stainless clad knifes in his Pro Line for many years ! ...

Greets Sebastian.

Not the gyutos, nothing over 180 in the pro line before.

 

[Tanalasta]

Is there anywhere else other than JNS that sells Toyama? I can’t say I’m terribly fond of the stock wood handles and it’s really difficult getting handles done in Australia at a half decent price point loclaly

 

[labor of love]

Is there anywhere else other than JNS that sells Toyama? I can’t say I’m terribly fond of the stock wood handles and it’s really difficult getting handles done in Australia at a half decent price point loclaly

You can just get one at here
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/
The kanji is different though, it says watanabe

 

[Matus]

I find it a bit surprising that you would say this when Maxim actually states the opposite...that Toyama never trained Watanabe.
See Maxim's replies (#96 & 103) in the above referenced thread:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/tf-or-watanabe.38102/page-4

FWIW I believe Shinichi when he says he learned from Toyama and that they cooperate, but it is definitely not the story that Maxim tells....

The two posts say:
#96:

• Toyama was an apprentice of old Tadafusa
• Toyama sells knives to Watanabe

#103:

• Watanabe was never a teacher of the Toyama
• Watanabe orders knives from Toyama and other blacksmith

In fact - Watanabe is in the first place a salesman & vendor. He also sells jewelry under his name: http://www.jblade.jp/

 

[KCMande]

anyone actually used one of these yet? How do they compare to the iron clad? thinking of selling my iron clad and picking up a stainless

 

[labor of love]

I read somewhere that watanabe or Toyama might actually discontinue iron clad and just go to stainless clad. You might want to hold off on selling.

 

[valgard]

Is there anywhere else other than JNS that sells Toyama? I can’t say I’m terribly fond of the stock wood handles and it’s really difficult getting handles done in Australia at a half decent price point loclaly

Under the Toyama brand I have only seen them at JNS and a friend sent me pics from a mortar and brick shop in Japan that stocks them too. You can get a Watanabe pro duh, unless you are hung up on the branding/kanji. Craig @Carbonifeco.com sells them and he can put a custom handle himself.

 

[Tanalasta]

Re the stainless clad. I’ve found the 210mm not very reactive as expected. The 240 has much better balance and heft.

The edge on the 210 is very thin and chippy. I’ve had microchips slicing simple things (eg. Mushroom) on a maple board. Probably needs a microbevel. I don’t know whethe that’s normal for a Toyama but it’s not what I look for in terms of knife characteristics

 

[Jville]

Re the stainless clad. I’ve found the 210mm not very reactive as expected. The 240 has much better balance and heft.

The edge on the 210 is very thin and chippy. I’ve had microchips slicing simple things (eg. Mushroom) on a maple board. Probably needs a microbevel. I don’t know whethe that’s normal for a Toyama but it’s not what I look for in terms of knife characteristics

Huh, none of the toyamas ive had seemed chippy. I did get a small chip in 210 gyuto that im not sure how it got there. But the ht has always frlt really good on toyamas, curious if there is much/any difference in tbe stainless clad versions.

 

[chinacats]

You likely just need to give it a round on the stones. Many good knives chip at first