Stainless vs carbon steels: toughness and edge retention - what am I missing?

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These two knives are about as close are you're going to get to the same knife in different steels - Euroline Stainless (13c26) and the 1.0 version of the Carbon (52100).

The 2.0 Carbon is a slightly different profile.

I didn't have the two knives at the same time, but had the Carbon, then the Stainless, and now the Carbon again. The stainless was a functional knife, but missed something compared to the carbon.
Never had the stainless but had the carbon and SG2. The carbon and sg2 are actually very different. The carbon has a 4 mm spine while the sg2’s spine was a little thinner than 3 mm if I recall correctly. The carbon has a full flat grind from spine to edge with 0.25 mm thinness behind the edge, while the SG2 one has a half flat grind from the middle way of the geometry and it is 0.35-0.4 mm thick behind the edge. I think the carbon cuts better than the SG2 by quite a bit. The stainless one could be a different story though.
 

esoo

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Never had the stainless but had the carbon and SG2. The carbon and sg2 are actually very different. The carbon has a 4 mm spine while the sg2’s spine was a little thinner than 3 mm if I recall correctly. The carbon has a full flat grind from spine to edge with 0.25 mm thinness behind the edge, while the SG2 one has a half flat grind from the middle way of the geometry and it is 0.35-0.4 mm thick behind the edge. I think the carbon cuts better than the SG2 by quite a bit. The stainless one could be a different story though.

The 52100 and stainless are very similar with the same grind as far as I can remember. I had a SG2 nakiri and it is a very different grind.
 

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Have to agree - my Birgersson’s are probably my most used knives but the ones that I sharpen the least.

…..In my opinion there is one maker whose knife everybody should try. That Bjorn Birgersson, and his knives forged to a rediculous hardness from Swedish mystery steel. His knives just don’t seem to get dull, cut like fiends and are easy to sharpen. That’s my opinion anyway.
 

martchap

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why is carbon steel alot easier to sharpen compared to stainless?
i have only sharpened stainless steels never had the chance to sharpen a carbon
Sometimes the carbon steel on a microscopic level has a finer structure (smaller molecules?), so the edge is 'sharper' than the stainless may be capable of achieving. Also (or instead), stainless often is harder (tougher) when grinding against a stone or a diamond plate, so to approach a comparable edge as softer carbon-steel has is more work.
 

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What about Ashi and maybe Yoshi? You don't get as many flavors as Sukenari, but the Ashi in particular seem quite consistent.
 
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Stainless steel will hold an edge 4-6x longer than a similar formulation in a carbon steel, because it has the chrome carbides.

But it's going to take you 4-6 times longer to sharpen it.

A lot of knife makers will say, "Yeah but you can't get a stainless steel knife as sharp as a carbon steel knife."
You can.. It's just not so easy.

So that's really the story behind carbon and chrome steel. To me, I don't really see, especially if you're using it as a kitchen knife, I don't see any serious advantage to having a carbon steel knife. Unless of course you want to make fancy, pretty patterns like damascus

 
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HumbleHomeCook

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What are you after? I'm just curious where you're going?

This video is widely known and doesn't present anything many don't already know. It doesn't take 4-6x longer to sharpen a stainless knife. That's nonsense. Well, I reckon if you're saying you can get a shirogami knife sharp in one minute and a stainless knife takes four, I guess, but he says it with exaggeration and that just isn't the case. Sharpen K390 and then sharpen AEB-L and let me know what you experience.

The subject is way too complex to try to overly simplify it by carbon vs. stainless.

VG10 at 58HRC is stupid-simple to sharpen. VG10 at 60+ can be frustrating.

Specific steel, heat treat, geometry, abrasives, application, and just plain personal likes are all important and relevant.

You've been given a lot of answers already. If you want to rock high carbide stainless and declare it superior, go for it. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just don't expect everyone to jump on a ship we've all seen sailing around for a long time. We all have our reasons for what we like.

Personally, if I was going to go "super steels" it would still be mostly carbon. K390, Maxamet, etc.
 

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I think he's basing his preference on the assumption that the knife user will not be doing his own sharpening... which is arguably true for the majority of normies. In that case you don't care how annoying a steel is to sharpen, or whether it takes diamond stones or not to get a proper edge, all you care about is that it lasts as long as possible before you have to turn it in again.
When you do your own sharpening you start looking at things differently, and ease (even if that only means speed) of sharpening starts gaining importance over pure edge retention for most of us.
He actually brings up some of the same arguments we've brought up in this thread regarding PM steels.

I will say this though; if I could only have one knife... I'd always want it to be (semi)stainless. But maybe I'm just lazy...
 

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Actually it leads me to a question - to which I'd love to know the answer: is there truly such a thing as a free lunch when it comes to edge / retention sharpening? As in... is it even possible to get higher edge retention that isn't directly proportional to longer time spent sharpening the knife? If I spend twice as long sharpening to get twice as much edge retention, what did I really gain there? Maybe the question to ask is 'what gives the best ratio of edge retention to sharpening time'?
Come to think of it...wasn't that what Magnacut was all about? :D
 
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Nice video, I for my part didn't know it. I think it's important to note that these are generalizations. He knows this very well and several times points out that he's breaking down complex things into easily digestable statements.

That has been pointed out before - these things depend on a lot of factors. I for my part think "superior material for making kitchen knives" (from the original post of this thread) is a problematic perspective since it combines all these sometimes conflicting aspects into one criterion.

From a purely utilitarian perspective, stainless will win most of the time. But that is only one factor. Wood handles would also never be used from that point of view, just use some supertough plastic or even metal like in a Global. Why do we like our wooden handles?

So if you want to know what you might be missing or not with Carbon knives, you have to try them out. Maybe you'll like them, maybe not... even if not, when you take a white steel knife that will come back to hair-splitting sharpness after a few seconds on the stone, maybe this will give a small a-ha moment :)

But the question that started this thread is what is superior... that question won't get a satisfactory answer, because that's impossible.
 
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What are you after? I'm just curious where you're going?

This video is widely known and doesn't present anything many don't already know. It doesn't take 4-6x longer to sharpen a stainless knife. That's nonsense. Well, I reckon if you're saying you can get a shirogami knife sharp in one minute and a stainless knife takes four, I guess, but he says it with exaggeration and that just isn't the case. Sharpen K390 and then sharpen AEB-L and let me know what you experience.

The subject is way too complex to try to overly simplify it by carbon vs. stainless.

VG10 at 58HRC is stupid-simple to sharpen. VG10 at 60+ can be frustrating.

Specific steel, heat treat, geometry, abrasives, application, and just plain personal likes are all important and relevant.

You've been given a lot of answers already. If you want to rock high carbide stainless and declare it superior, go for it. Nothing wrong with that at all. Just don't expect everyone to jump on a ship we've all seen sailing around for a long time. We all have our reasons for what we like.

Personally, if I was going to go "super steels" it would still be mostly carbon. K390, Maxamet, etc.
I think that is actually a good point, comparing carbon steel and stainless is meaningless with specific steel, we should instread compare High alloy and low alloy steel.
 
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From first principles, I'd hazard that the steel factors out, and if we hold constant the wear load of the food/board, the major determinant of sharpening efficiency ratio is the stone – in other words: upgrade to SG, and to diamond.
I’d say it’s not that simple, if only sharpening efficiency is concerned then Aeb-l should be the king of knife steel, but that’s not the case. Even in carbon steel people find heat treatment they like or don’t, some people love Toyama blue #2 while other absolutely loath sharpening it. The specific steel and ht has a lot more variation in these factors.
 
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Actually it leads me to a question - to which I'd love to know the answer: is there truly such a thing as a free lunch when it comes to edge / retention sharpening? As in... is it even possible to get higher edge retention that isn't directly proportional to longer time spent sharpening the knife? If I spend twice as long sharpening to get twice as much edge retention, what did I really gain there? Maybe the question to ask is 'what gives the best ratio of edge retention to sharpening time'?
Come to think of it...wasn't that what Magnacut was all about? :D
There is a "free" lunch if you are willing to make a few compromises and assumptions. We have to agree that heat treat is optimal and that geometry takes advantage of the "better" steel. In addition to this we need to embrace that for some of these steels CBN or diamonds are essential. Given the above we can start seeing the advantages modern high alloy steels provide. This is where MagnaCut comes in and delivers on its promises. MagnaCut has very fine carbide structure is very tough at high hardness as compared to usual low alloy steels and has high wear resistance. Because of these it allows for thin, stable geometry that together with its microstructure, carbide size and volume can allow for "free" lunch situation where you get superior edge holding together with easy sharpening. Thin geometry stays sharper longer unless it breaks or deforms and this is where high hardness and toughness come in, in addition to higher wear resistance. Thin geometry and fine carbides also allow for ease of sharpening, but due to the carbide volume diamonds make it easier even though many have good results even without diamonds when geometry is appropriate.
I’d say it’s not that simple, if only sharpening efficiency is concerned then Aeb-l should be the king of knife steel, but that’s not the case. Even in carbon steel people find heat treatment they like or don’t, some people love Toyama blue #2 while other absolutely loath sharpening it. The specific steel and ht has a lot more variation in these factors.

AEB-L is the king of knife steels if we stick to conventional synthetic abrasives. It can do anything usual low alloy steels can do better and is very easy to sharpen. It really shines when it is given the geometry and heat treatment that it is capable of.


There wouldn't be any discussions if geometry was optimized for the steel used and if people that have many thousands of dollars invested in all sorts of stones and having many, many gyutos of the same size and shape instead invested in 2-3 quality diamond stones. My comments are about sharpening not necessarily about thinning or polishing since in sharpening very little steel is removed especially when the geometry is thin.
 
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If you change one of the variables like not using stones, then the steel choice is of lesser concern. And what is the best steel changes.
 

captaincaed

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Cost.

Seriously, a good, serviceable, lasts-a-lifetime carbon knife can be had for 85USD. A good MagnaCut knife will cost you better than 850USD. The cost of steel manufacturing plus abrasives plus labor … sheesh. Knifemakers like 10xx series steels for a reason. Compared to food, even pedestrian iron carbides are pretty hard. Is that MagnaCut knife 10x better?? It’s awesome for hobbyists, but I don’t see ‘utility’ as the compelling argument for MagnaCut (or any PM steel, honestly).

A smattering of chromium to buff up edge retention and help calm damage from acid, and you’ve got a winner. A2 is a personal favorite sweet spot. (FWIW, what I think I like is small-carbide size, and there are a few tricks to get that, like micro additions of chromium and vanadium - not for edge retention, but to reduce carbide size. Also improves toughness).

I’ve had a few PM knives, including MagnaCut. Honestly, I don’t love the edges they take. I’ve worked them over on diamond stones in all different ways. Stropped on diamond-loaded leather. Does pretty good. The edge is thin, the grind is amazing. But an AEB-L knife from the same maker takes a toothy edge better, which lasts longer.

In a CATRA test, I fully believe the MagnaCut will out-cut AEB-L. No quarrel. But they don’t load CATRA with tomatoes. If they did, they’d find that steels which can produce micro-saw-teeth that are the perfect size and consistency to cut ‘maters are not made at the PM factory. I can bring that edge back on a simple steel in seconds. And it’ll keep cutting tomatoes longer, which is what I want to cut with that darn knife.

When my wife has a dozen over for dinner (as she often does), and I’m just slamming through prep, a non-toothy edge just won’t do. I can’t “make it work” when it’s not cutting. It needs a refresh. And I don’t want to bust out the diamonds and the matcha and have a tea ceremony with my sharpening. I just want a few swipes on a stone in-hand, then I want to get down to the party so I can stir fry some screaming-hot crispy pork, garlic and Chinese broccoli with 2x as many chilis as any human needs. I want to cook, to feed people, to have fun, and make a new memory. Sharpening (well) is entirely solitary. And I don’t want to think about “is it sharp enough to get me through dinner” or “will I have to duck aside and resharpen this beast” or “is everyone getting hungry and stir-crazy while they’re waiting for me to stir-fry.” Nope. Gimme something that’ll touch-up on a brick and my belt. Get me back to the human-circus, and the fun.

Some professional sharpeners with motorized equipment and a deft touch could definitely improve the edges I make at home. Next time I invite them to dinner, I’ll hand them the MagnaCut.

Disclaimer: No cocktails were harmed in the writing of this post.
 
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Cost.

Seriously, a good, serviceable, lasts-a-lifetime carbon knife can be had for 85USD. A good MagnaCut knife will cost you better than 850USD. The cost of steel manufacturing plus abrasives plus labor … sheesh. Knifemakers like 10xx series steels for a reason. Compared to food, even pedestrian iron carbides are pretty hard. Is that MagnaCut knife 10x better?? It’s awesome for hobbyists, but I don’t see ‘utility’ as the compelling argument for MagnaCut (or any PM steel, honestly).

A smattering of chromium to buff up edge retention and help calm damage from acid, and you’ve got a winner. A2 is a personal favorite sweet spot. (FWIW, what I think I like is small-carbide size, and there are a few tricks to get that, like micro additions of chromium and vanadium - not for edge retention, but to reduce carbide size. Also improves toughness).

I’ve had a few PM knives, including MagnaCut. Honestly, I don’t love the edges they take. I’ve worked them over on diamond stones in all different ways. Stropped on diamond-loaded leather. Does pretty good. The edge is thin, the grind is amazing. But an AEB-L knife from the same maker takes a toothy edge better, which lasts longer.

In a CATRA test, I fully believe the MagnaCut will out-cut AEB-L. No quarrel. But they don’t load CATRA with tomatoes. If they did, they’d find that steels which can produce micro-saw-teeth that are the perfect size and consistency to cut ‘maters are not made at the PM factory. I can bring that edge back on a simple steel in seconds. And it’ll keep cutting tomatoes longer, which is what I want to cut with that darn knife.

When my wife has a dozen over for dinner (as she often does), and I’m just slamming through prep, a non-toothy edge just won’t do. I can’t “make it work” when it’s not cutting. It needs a refresh. And I don’t want to bust out the diamonds and the matcha and have a tea ceremony with my sharpening. I just want a few swipes on a stone in-hand, then I want to get down to the party so I can stir fry some screaming-hot crispy pork, garlic and Chinese broccoli with 2x as many chilis as any human needs. I want to cook, to feed people, to have fun, and make a new memory. Sharpening (well) is entirely solitary. And I don’t want to think about “is it sharp enough to get me through dinner” or “will I have to duck aside and resharpen this beast” or “is everyone getting hungry and stir-crazy while they’re waiting for me to stir-fry.” Nope. Gimme something that’ll touch-up on a brick and my belt. Get me back to the human-circus, and the fun.

Some professional sharpeners with motorized equipment and a deft touch could definitely improve the edges I make at home. Next time I invite them to dinner, I’ll hand them the MagnaCut.

Disclaimer: No cocktails were harmed in the writing of this post.
Cool story. So a similar knife from the same maker will cost 10x in MagnaCut vs low alloy steel? I haven’t seen it, but i haven’t tried every maker. Or are you comparing run of the mill department store knife to a custom? If so, not exactly a good comparison in my opinion ofcourse. By the same account as good as AEB-L is and it is good, how can it possibly outcut a MagnaCut or similar steel at the hardnesses we are interested in. What mechanism would explain this performance difference? AEB-L can be tougher so there are use cases where it could work better, but in kitchen knives I can’t seem to think of such.

You say you like small carbide size for toughness and MagnaCut has some of the smallest carbides of any steel, so it should be right up your alley. It also touches up very well on both diamond loaded strop or diamond stones, which you can have in hand a do a few swipes same as on any other knife you use, so I fail to see where the difference lies. You are an experienced user and your experience is yours, but it is so different from mine that I am trying to understand what would explain it. I just can’t imagine the mechanism that would explain what you are seeing.

Cost can be an issue but 10x is stretching it if we talk of same class of knives.

Steels like anything else are a personal preference, so it is all good. I just hope we don’t mislead people based on our personal preferences. Some statements need more explanation since on the surface they seem to be contrary to what metallurgy tells us. Knives are not magic and modern science understands steels very well, so what we see in the kitchen should be somewhat explainable.
 

Justinv

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Actually it leads me to a question - to which I'd love to know the answer: is there truly such a thing as a free lunch when it comes to edge / retention sharpening? As in... is it even possible to get higher edge retention that isn't directly proportional to longer time spent sharpening the knife?
The answer is yes. There is easy to forge, easy to sharpen carbon that lacks edge retention and is prone to corrosion. There is stainless which pays a price for corrosion resistance. Thats pretty much it on the market.

That’s omitting the giant semi-stainless category that contains the “free lunch”. Where are modern options like YXR7? The PM semistainless in particular is completely omitted from the market other than the few Hap40 options. D2 and A2 have a few vendors, but those steels are ancient and better options exist.
 
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Cool story. So a similar knife from the same maker will cost 10x in MagnaCut vs low alloy steel? I haven’t seen it, but i haven’t tried every maker. Or are you comparing run of the mill department store knife to a custom? If so, not exactly a good comparison in my opinion ofcourse. By the same account as good as AEB-L is and it is good, how can it possibly outcut a MagnaCut or similar steel at the hardnesses we are interested in. What mechanism would explain this performance difference? AEB-L can be tougher so there are use cases where it could work better, but in kitchen knives I can’t seem to think of such.

You say you like small carbide size for toughness and MagnaCut has some of the smallest carbides of any steel, so it should be right up your alley. It also touches up very well on both diamond loaded strop or diamond stones, which you can have in hand a do a few swipes same as on any other knife you use, so I fail to see where the difference lies. You are an experienced user and your experience is yours, but it is so different from mine that I am trying to understand what would explain it. I just can’t imagine the mechanism that would explain what you are seeing.

Cost can be an issue but 10x is stretching it if we talk of same class of knives.

Steels like anything else are a personal preference, so it is all good. I just hope we don’t mislead people based on our personal preferences. Some statements need more explanation since on the surface they seem to be contrary to what metallurgy tells us. Knives are not magic and modern science understands steels very well, so what we see in the kitchen should be somewhat explainable.
I agree with most of the sentiment, but while wear resistance test is the closest to what we have of a scientific method on edge retention, it is sometimes not represented in real situation. I have experienced some of harder carbon steel in 52100 and Blue #1 out last my Sg2 and vg10 knife, all thin geometry. Other people also reported similar experience in Blue super and some other high hardness low alloy steel, which shouldn’t be possible consider the test result. There’s simply towards edge retention than wear resistance in kitchen use.
 

M1k3

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Cost.

Seriously, a good, serviceable, lasts-a-lifetime carbon knife can be had for 85USD. A good MagnaCut knife will cost you better than 850USD. The cost of steel manufacturing plus abrasives plus labor … sheesh. Knifemakers like 10xx series steels for a reason. Compared to food, even pedestrian iron carbides are pretty hard. Is that MagnaCut knife 10x better?? It’s awesome for hobbyists, but I don’t see ‘utility’ as the compelling argument for MagnaCut (or any PM steel, honestly).

A smattering of chromium to buff up edge retention and help calm damage from acid, and you’ve got a winner. A2 is a personal favorite sweet spot. (FWIW, what I think I like is small-carbide size, and there are a few tricks to get that, like micro additions of chromium and vanadium - not for edge retention, but to reduce carbide size. Also improves toughness).

I’ve had a few PM knives, including MagnaCut. Honestly, I don’t love the edges they take. I’ve worked them over on diamond stones in all different ways. Stropped on diamond-loaded leather. Does pretty good. The edge is thin, the grind is amazing. But an AEB-L knife from the same maker takes a toothy edge better, which lasts longer.

In a CATRA test, I fully believe the MagnaCut will out-cut AEB-L. No quarrel. But they don’t load CATRA with tomatoes. If they did, they’d find that steels which can produce micro-saw-teeth that are the perfect size and consistency to cut ‘maters are not made at the PM factory. I can bring that edge back on a simple steel in seconds. And it’ll keep cutting tomatoes longer, which is what I want to cut with that darn knife.

When my wife has a dozen over for dinner (as she often does), and I’m just slamming through prep, a non-toothy edge just won’t do. I can’t “make it work” when it’s not cutting. It needs a refresh. And I don’t want to bust out the diamonds and the matcha and have a tea ceremony with my sharpening. I just want a few swipes on a stone in-hand, then I want to get down to the party so I can stir fry some screaming-hot crispy pork, garlic and Chinese broccoli with 2x as many chilis as any human needs. I want to cook, to feed people, to have fun, and make a new memory. Sharpening (well) is entirely solitary. And I don’t want to think about “is it sharp enough to get me through dinner” or “will I have to duck aside and resharpen this beast” or “is everyone getting hungry and stir-crazy while they’re waiting for me to stir-fry.” Nope. Gimme something that’ll touch-up on a brick and my belt. Get me back to the human-circus, and the fun.

Some professional sharpeners with motorized equipment and a deft touch could definitely improve the edges I make at home. Next time I invite them to dinner, I’ll hand them the MagnaCut.

Disclaimer: No cocktails were harmed in the writing of this post.
Lowish grit diamond. Cut tomatoes all day. At least that's my experience with Z-wear. Which I'd assume would be more like MagnaCut, than AEB-L.
 

M1k3

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I agree with most of the sentiment, but while wear resistance test is the closest to what we have of a scientific method on edge retention, it is sometimes not represented in real situation. I have experienced some of harder carbon steel in 52100 and Blue #1 out last my Sg2 and vg10 knife, all thin geometry. Other people also reported similar experience in Blue super and some other high hardness low alloy steel, which shouldn’t be possible consider the test result. There’s simply towards edge retention than wear resistance in kitchen use.
I have a knife in 52100 and another in Z-wear from the same maker. Geometries aren't exactly the same but pretty similar (the Z-wear slightly thicker behind the edge). I can tell you in my experience, the Z-wear lasts wwwaaayyyy longer than the 52100. Whether both are sharpened on diamonds or not. With diamonds, the Z-wear lasts longer enough to tell a difference, but isn't magic.
 
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I have a knife in 52100 and another in Z-wear from the same maker. Geometries aren't exactly the same but pretty similar (the Z-wear slightly thicker behind the edge). I can tell you in my experience, the Z-wear lasts wwwaaayyyy longer than the 52100. Whether both are sharpened on diamonds or not. With diamonds, the Z-wear lasts longer enough to tell a difference, but isn't magic.
Well technically Z-wear is also carbon steel… but yeah personal experience can be different depends on makers and geometry
 
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I agree with most of the sentiment, but while wear resistance test is the closest to what we have of a scientific method on edge retention, it is sometimes not represented in real situation. I have experienced some of harder carbon steel in 52100 and Blue #1 out last my Sg2 and vg10 knife, all thin geometry. Other people also reported similar experience in Blue super and some other high hardness low alloy steel, which shouldn’t be possible consider the test result. There’s simply towards edge retention than wear resistance in kitchen use.
That’s not what is being stated though. First of all we don’t just get wear resistance numbers, we also get hardness and toughness and corrosion resistance tests. Ofcourse there are situations where 52100 at 64 hrc will outlast vg10 at 59 hrc. This can be explained. How can AEB-L at 64 hrc out cut MagnaCut at 64 hrc assuming both got there with optimal heat treat for each steel. Or any other similar hardness. I just can’t imagine a mechanism that would explain this given what we know of these steels. In my experience zwear out cuts 52100, MagnaCut out cuts AEB-L, zwear and MagnaCut are very similar in performance. K390 lasts longer still as does vancron at very high hardness. High alloy steels need diamond or CBN to shine, but they stay sharp longer. Someone might still not want them for many reasons, but edge holding seems to be an odd one.
 
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That’s not what is being stated though. First of all we don’t just get wear resistance numbers, we also get hardness and toughness and corrosion resistance tests. Ofcourse there are situations where 52100 at 64 hrc will outlast vg10 at 59 hrc. This can be explained. How can AEB-L at 64 hrc out cut MagnaCut at 64 hrc assuming both got there with optimal heat treat for each steel. Or any other similar hardness. I just can’t imagine a mechanism that would explain this given what we know of these steels. In experience zwear out cuts 52100, MagnaCut out cuts AEB-L, zwear and MagnaCut are very similar in performance. K390 last longer still as does vancron at very high hardness. High alloy steels need diamond or CBN to shine, but they stay sharp longer. Someone might still not want them for many reasons, but edge holding seems to be an odd one.
That’s the part I agree, however not everyone ht magnacut to 64.
 
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That’s the part I agree, however not everyone ht magnacut to 64.
OK, MagnaCut at 62 vs AEB-L at 62, both with same geometry and good heat treat for the steel. In gyuto type kitchen knife use. AEB-L is tougher at this hardness, but MagnaCut is pretty damn tough too, and I would argue tough enough for kitchen use.
 
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That's why ealier in the thread I suggest instead of Carbon vs Stainless it should be Low alloy vs High Alloy, all stainless are high alloy, but not all high alloy are stainless.
This is how I’ve beeen using it anyway as this is an obvious distinction. Carbon vs stainless is so vague it is meaningless. In any case we have much bigger issues in this thread like every single time we discuss steels🤷‍♂️
 
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OK, MagnaCut at 62 vs AEB-L at 62, both with same geometry and good heat treat for the steel. In gyuto type kitchen knife use. AEB-L is tougher at this hardness, but MagnaCut is pretty damn tough too, and I would argue tough enough for kitchen use.
I agree apart from toughness Magnacut will outperform AEB-L in everyway, but my point was the different heat treatment by makers could result in vastly different experience. For example one maker's Aogami super last longer than other's VG10 at 60 HRC, while in theory it shouldn't be. I'm comparing steels supposedly more close to each other, so high alloy is not always better than low alloy in some experience. Of course if we count in steel like Magnacut, M390 or Hap40 they are going to be significantly long lasting than any low alloy, but not all high alloy is going to behave that way.
 
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