Stainless vs carbon steels: toughness and edge retention - what am I missing?

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I agree apart from toughness Magnacut will outperform AEB-L in everyway, but my point was the different heat treatment by makers could result in vastly different experience. For example one maker's Aogami super last longer than other's VG10 at 60 HRC, while in theory it shouldn't be. I'm comparing steels supposedly more close to each other, so high alloy is not always better than low alloy in some experience. Of course if we count in steel like Magnacut, M390 or Hap40 they are going to be significantly long lasting than any low alloy, but not all high alloy is going to behave that way.
I don’t disagree with any of it. Ofcourse different heat treats make a difference. Different geometries also make a huge difference. You can’t compare steels like that. You can compare knives and say that some low alloy knife cuts better and longer than some high alloy knife. You just can’t generalize knife performance to all the knives made out of the same steel amd then conclude that one steel is ”better” than the other. I hope that by now with all the effort that was made by people in the community it is clear that in order to compare steels themselves in the least all the knives have to be the same in everything else.
 
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I don’t disagree with any of it. Ofcourse different heat treats make a difference. Different geometries also make a huge difference. You can’t compare steels like that. You can compare knives and say that some low alloy knife cuts better and longer than some high alloy knife. You just can’t generalize knife performance to all the knives made out of the same steel amd then conclude that one steel is ”better” than the other. I hope that by now with all the effort that was made by people in the community it is clear that in order to compare steels themselves in the least all the knives have to be the same in everything else.
I think we are saying the same point but in a different way. What I was saying is exactly “You can compare knives and say that some low alloy knife cuts better and longer than some high alloy knife. You just can’t generalize knife performance to all the knives made out of the same steel amd then conclude that one steel is ”better” than the other.” Because people tend to generalize all high alloy steel knives is better than low alloy steel knives, which is not true.
 

captaincaed

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Lowish grit diamond. Cut tomatoes all day. At least that's my experience with Z-wear. Which I'd assume would be more like MagnaCut, than AEB-L.
For sure. That’s similar to my experience. I have this goofy second hand 500/3k sankyo diamond stone that actually puts great edges on, but smells like a tire factory.

For me and high alloy steels, I don’t have great luck getting 4-6k edges last that long with the tooth I like. I can get that reliably with most simple carbon and basic tool steels. Who knows. Maybe I need to try Harbeer’s Zwear.
 
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technically Z-wear is also carbon steel
In the field of tool steel I usually see stuff broken down as follows not that we have to use the same framework. But it might help clarify things if we all are speaking the same steel language
  1. Carbon steels (C+Mn sometimes a small V addition)
  2. Low alloy steels (Cr <2ish% )
  3. Medium alloy steels (2%<Cr<4%)
  4. High alloy steels (Cr >4%)
    1. non-stainless
    2. stainless
Carbon vs stainless is so vague it is meaningless.
see above maybe defining it that way helps with vagueness.
For example one maker's Aogami super last longer than other's VG10 at 60 HRC, while in theory it shouldn't be.
Again as I have said before. I really don't like ascribing quite so much value to HTs. Heat treating is a fairly simple process so I think most of these differences are really geometry.
Compared to food, even pedestrian iron carbides are pretty hard.
I mean to be fair compared to food and steel or even any metal is pretty hard. So I don't think that this idea can be used to discount harder carbides
I think I like is small-carbide size
I'm a little confused here as above you say that you like A2 which has pretty large carbides and that you don't like magnacut which has carbides similar in size to AEB-L.
high alloy steels
Do you mean high alloy steels or high alloy steels with MC (V W Nb etc) type carbides? Do you have diamond 4-6k stones?
 

captaincaed

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I'm a little confused here as above you say that you like A2 which has pretty large carbides and that you don't like magnacut which has carbides similar in size to AEB-L.
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A2 certainly has larger inclusions. On average, seems like it can be made fairly fine. D2 is my arch-nemesis. Several folders I just don’t enjoy sharpening.

No idea if carbide size is why I don’t enjoy sharpening magnacut, happy to revise my opinion. This is an “on average” observation/speculation.
 
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A2 certainly has larger inclusions. On average, seems like it can be made fairly fine. D2 is my arch-nemesis. Several folders I just don’t enjoy sharpening.
It has a pretty low carbide volume while it looks like it is finer then SG2 the average carbide size is a bit larger. It has a pretty small volume of micron-ish carbides like AEB-L and some very large 10+ micron carbides while the larger carbides in SG 2 are more like 5 microns. I guess it depends on what you mean by on "average it can be made fine".
 
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