Withdrawn Starter stones for kasumi

[JPAU]

Hello all!

I am aspiring to tech myself (with the help that I have gratefully received from this community) to set geometry and policy a few knives. I am in the process of building up a progression (about which I have posted separately). A couple of gaps to fill, if anyone has one laying around that they no longer want:

1. JNS220
2. Naniwa Diamond 400
3. Naniwa Chosera 3000 and 5000
4. ‘Beginner’ natural stones for kasumi such as uchi, preferably a decent quality koppa. Not looking to spend the big bucks just yet, while I’m dipping my toes in the water.

Thanks!

 

[goldendiver]

J, @ared715 may be able to help you out with the Jnats. I've purchased a few from him and they are all spot on and reasonably priced. He's also very willing to pass on some wisedom and I've learned a ton from him. Also, I use the Chosera 3k & 5K in my progression before the Jnats and they are great stones.

 

[goldendiver]

BTW, if you want a decent, cheaper synth stone for Kasumi the King Deluxe 800 is very decent. I think others might echo that as this form is how I was clued in on it.

 

[JPAU]

@ared715

 

[bsfsu]

The Imanishi 1000 white stone gives a nice dark kasumi, a great early stage stone.

 

[ethompson]

If you’re set on going to a natural at the end, I’d suggest avoiding any synth stones that leaves “kasumi” type finishes. These stones hide scratches and ultimately make the final polishing harder as they aren’t honest with you as you move up the grits.

 

[JPAU]

If you’re set on going to a natural at the end, I’d suggest avoiding any synth stones that leaves “kasumi” type finishes. These stones hide scratches and ultimately make the final polishing harder as they aren’t honest with you as you move up the grits.

Thanks, got the impression that harder coarse stones leave nowhere to hide but that’s a good thing to be honest about the geometry. I’m thinking that I will follow the progression proposed by @milangravier and then try a couple of koppas (and perhaps start the natural stone journey from there - no rush).

 

[aporigine]

... I’m presently pretty constant pursuing the sudneyh

This is the moment, Your Honor, when the drugs took effect.

 

[JPAU]

This is the moment, Your Honor, when the drugs took effect.

Hahaha voice to text took over.

 

[goldendiver]

This is the moment, Your Honor, when the drugs took effect.

Haha I thought I was having a Hunter Thompson flashback.....'We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.'

 

[aporigine]

Haha I thought I was having a Hunter Thompson flashback.....'We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.'

He’ll see the bats soon enough, the poor b**tard.

 

[JPAU]

No longer need the listing for items 1-3. Just after 4 now - any affordable naturals to try as a beginner, please let me know!

 

[Some Jabroni]

i highly recommend a maruoyama shiro suita. they're very consistant, on the more affordable end, and will save you the headache of trying to use a cheaper, inconsistent stone. then you can work around that. it's taken me a little while or trial and error when buying stones to land on a pretty solid range.

for polishing, i also recommend an akapin. it's the most recent stone i've acquired, an ohira akapin. it's the softest stone i own, next to a soft blue aoto, but it's much finer. it seems to be a similar grit range to an aizu i have, maybe around 4k grit. I've heard they are amazing stones for polishing honyaki. it's what i use prior to my maruoyama shiro suita. the akapin is way too soft to be a good stone for edges.

A great thing about maruoyama shiro suita is that they're extremely easy to use, very beginner friendly, and they're still hard enough to be good for edges too. I think they're usually around 5k-7k grit.

uchigumori is pretty safe too. I find them to be very similar to maruoyama shiro suita. at least what i've tried. good luck with your hunt, i'm sure you'll find something.

finger stones and powder and also a great option. i;d get those if i were you.

 

[JPAU]

i highly recommend a maruoyama shiro suita. they're very consistant, on the more affordable end, and will save you the headache of trying to use a cheaper, inconsistent stone. then you can work around that. it's taken me a little while or trial and error when buying stones to land on a pretty solid range.

for polishing, i also recommend an akapin. it's the most recent stone i've acquired, an ohira akapin. it's the softest stone i own, next to a soft blue aoto, but it's much finer. it seems to be a similar grit range to an aizu i have, maybe around 4k grit. I've heard they are amazing stones for polishing honyaki. it's what i use prior to my maruoyama shiro suita. the akapin is way too soft to be a good stone for edges.

A great thing about maruoyama shiro suita is that they're extremely easy to use, very beginner friendly, and they're still hard enough to be good for edges too. I think they're usually around 5k-7k grit.

uchigumori is pretty safe too. I find them to be very similar to maruoyama shiro suita. at least what i've tried. good luck with your hunt, i'm sure you'll find something.

finger stones and powder and also a great option. i;d get those if i were you.

Thank you, that’s very helpful indeed. At this stage, i think im getting an uchi, uchi powder and uchi finger stones. If a maruoyama shiro suita comes across my path, I’ll definitely consider it!

 

[Some Jabroni]

Get the maruoyama uchi that ared posted, I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.

That is very very similar to a maruoyama shiro suita, so you won't need both. That looks.like a great stone at an even better price.

 

[JPAU]

Get the maruoyama uchi that ared posted, I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.

That is very very similar to a maruoyama shiro suita, so you won't need both. That looks.like a great stone at an even better price.

Thanks!

Still open to naturals to try … if anyone wants to let one go, please DM me.

 

[JPAU]

Does anyone have a strong view about which of the following is the most adept budget low grit: Shapton pro 220, Shapton pro 320, Shapton rockstar 320? Will be followed by Naniwa 400, so guessing the 220 is the best value. I have a seen at least two of these mentioned by respected members and a couple of makers as decent options.

 

[Just a DK]

I guess Q on my end... but if you aren't thinning or have a knife that is ultra wonky do you need to go below the 400?

I started my Birgersson on 400 and it was fine. Also curious what others think.

 

[JPAU]

I guess Q on my end... but if you aren't thinning or have a knife that is ultra wonky do you need to go below the 400?

I started my Birgersson on 400 and it was fine. Also curious what others think.

I’m guessing that some of the knives I’ll work on will require bevel work to be ‘stone ready’ for polishing. I’ve read several posts from @milangravier and @ethompson, both of whom recommend a low grit to fast track the bevel setting process.

First couple of projects are an unfinished petty and honesuki from a couple of generous western smiths whose projects were abandoned by those who commissioned them. Also a Hinoura that will require some bevel correction.

But I’ll be happy if you’re right and I don’t need to buy another stone. I’m open to advice!

 

[Just a DK]

I’m guessing that some of the knives I’ll work on will require bevel work to be ‘stone ready’ for polishing. I’ve read several posts from @milangravier and @ethompson, both of whom recommend a low grit to fast track the bevel setting process.

First couple of projects are an unfinished petty and honesuki from a couple of generous western smiths whose projects were abandoned by those who commissioned them. Also a Hinoura that will require some bevel correction.

But I’ll be happy if you’re right and I don’t need to buy another stone. I’m open to advice!

Unfortunately have no advice as I have not tried to grind a full bevel on a stone. If I see a big low spot(s) after a quick pass on 6k, I will put away the stones and take out sandpaper

 

[JPAU]

Also, I’ve received some very kind messages from other novice polishers or aspirants. A couple asked about the line up I ended up purchasing. For the benefit of the other juniors around, aside from some shapton glass and rockstars that I have for edges, I have purchased:

- Naniwa Chosera 400, 600 and 1000

- Naniwa Arata (baby Chosera) 3000 and 5000

- a couple of naturals (maruoyama shiki uchi, umegehata karasu suita)

- finger stones and uchiko powder

 

[JPAU]

Unfortunately have no advice as I have not tried to grind a full bevel on a stone. If I see a big low spot(s) after a quick pass on 6k, I will put away the stones and take out sandpaper

For transparency, I am driven to attempt polishing more by the attempted mastery of a new skill (ie the skill acquisition aspect) more than the achieving the end product (ie a specific appearance for a given knife), although I recognise that the second is a corollary of the first. all of my fav knives are either stone polished and ready already or not amenable to stone polishing anyway.

 

[NickMinton]

Just checking @JPAU but have you gotten some info on techniques to polish? (Ie: scratch patterns, sharpie marking, etc.)

 

[JPAU]

Just checking @JPAU but have you gotten some info on techniques to polish? (Ie: scratch patterns, sharpie marking, etc.)

Not yet … while I’ve gleaned bits and pieces while tunnelling through old threads, I can’t say that I comprehend what I’m meant to be doing yet.

 

[Bico Doce]

Does anyone have a strong view about which of the following is the most adept budget low grit: Shapton pro 220, Shapton pro 320, Shapton rockstar 320? Will be followed by Naniwa 400, so guessing the 220 is the best value. I have a seen at least two of these mentioned by respected members and a couple of makers as decent options.

The naniwa 400 may take a while to remove scratches from a 220. It just feels finer than other 400 grit stone, scratches are not as aggressive.

 

[JPAU]

The naniwa 400 may take a while to remove scratches from a 220. It just feels finer than other 400 grit stone, scratches are not as aggressive.

Understood! Is there enough of a jump between a Shapton pro 320 and a Naniwa Chosera 400 to justify the former?

 

[Bico Doce]

Understood! Is there enough of a jump between a Shapton pro 320 and a Naniwa Chosera 400 to justify the former?

I think so

 

[JPAU]

I think so

Is that because the two lines / brands are not working to the same grit scale, the substrate or binder are different, or the density of abrasives are different? Or some combination?

 

[aporigine]

Is that because the two lines / brands are not working to the same grit scale, the substrate or binder are different, or the density of abrasives are different? Or some combination?

Take the following with a grain of … alumina:

I have read multiple times on this forum that the SP1k runs coarse (perhaps 700-800 on an averaged-across-makers basis) while the Chosera 400 runs neutral to fine. I have these stones and an SP 120 for those heavy-lifting days. So I cannot really compare like with like.

The 120 is a beast unto itself. It feels like sandstone and wears/dishes with something like promiscuity. Perhaps the available binder formulation has less hold over those big grains.
Going from that to Chosera 400 is interesting. Scratch pattern much finer, but the 400 has a much less sandy but rather aggressive feel. It chews through the scratches from the 120 in a reasonable amount of time. While it feels abrasive-dense, the binder exerts more felt control over the abrasive. Unfortunately I don’t think there is a Shapton 400 for me to compare.

From there I go to my SP (technically M24, which I gather is the or a predecessor line to the current SP) 1000. It is a slightly harder stone than the C400 and considerably refines the scratch pattern. I’m tempted to get a Chosera 1k which will allow me to gain perspective on my Shapton.

(From there I go to a Chosera 3k, reputed to run fine for its numbers. It has a softer, somehow velvety feedback compared to its coarser stablemates, and is a quick cutter for its rating. These four stones are my core progression, with the 120 only invoked for serious reprofiling.)

My take based on my experience with this set is that
- Shapton runs coarser than Chosera
- I’d say they are all abrasive-dense, and that the form factor, which affects perceived “sharpness”, is comparable
- Chosera binder has a softer feel, though not much so for the 400.

I could improve the resolution of this ballpark estimation with a Chosera 1k, which would allow me to gain a finer sense of how the lines compare in both feedback (binder behavior) and grain aggression, which I believe is a combined function of grain size and shape; rounder vs pointier. For fun a Rockstar 1k would inform me about how Shapton has changed its leading 1k over the last 25 years.

I hope you were able to dig some information out of this reverie.

 

[Bico Doce]

Understood! Is there enough of a jump between a Shapton pro 320 and a Naniwa Chosera 400 to justify the former?

I used a debado 180, 320 and then the chosera 400. I think a tighter progression on the coarser stones saves time in the long run. Debado 320 to a chosera 800 or even the 600 is too big a leap for my liking.