Starting stones - Shapton

[nijiumu]

I'm still very new to sharpening and haven't had great results yet with my cheap Chinese 1k/4k stone. So I guess I should buy something better and probably coarser, especially as I will want to sharpen some old, dull SS knives.

I've seen a lot of recommendations for the Shapton Glass 500. Is it coarse enough to sharpen dull western knives?

There's also something called Shapton Glass Stone Seven 25 micron. Is that a good discount version for a beginner?

Is there a difference between Shapton Pro and Shapton Ha-no-kuromaku?

I've also seen many people recommend the King 1000. Is this model the one, or are people talking about a more expensive model?

 

[daveb]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/welcome-new-members-please-read.63865/

 

[mengwong]

Is it coarse enough to sharpen dull western knives?

If you’re fixing up your own knives kind of on a one-time basis, then yes. After your first round of major work it can move to more of a maintenance thinning role. But if you might be resetting other people’s regularly then you’ll be glad to have an SG220. The SG220,500,1000 are the bedrock of a lot of people’s kit. I use those most out of my set of 220,500,1k,2k,4k,8k,16k.

I started with the 500,2000,16000 bundle and filled in the rest later. I have no regrets. One could actually stay with those three for an entire lifetime and not be missing too much. Or for a little less money you could get only the Shapton Pro 1000 (== Ha-no-kuromaku) and master that before expanding your range. For some reason my local market enjoys ridiculously good pricing on that – I got one for €20 in November just for lending to friends who are new to sharpening.

The glass stones are a bit small, more useful for travel. Or if I lived in an Airstream or on a boat I would appreciate the smaller size.

I’ll defer to others about the rest. I have less experience with King; I do have the 1000/6000 but I wouldn’t use it for resetting the edge. I would use the SP1000 though.

 

[nijiumu]

Sorry about the links, didn't realize they went in the spam filter.

Thank you for the detailed response. I've seen a lot of people recommend a mix between Shapton Glass and Shapton Pro. I can tell the Pro has a case you can use as a base. Would it be possible to also use it as a base for the Glass?

What's the main advantage of the Glass compared to the Pro?

If you were to get two stones for a beginner, which ones would it be? 220 and 1000? Or is that too big of a jump?

 

[Benuser]

Sweeping statements about both series make little sense. At this — high — level, every stone has a specific character. The SG220 and 320 are very close though, with only a difference in speed. The 500 is an excellent stone for setting bevels, but not so much for thinning heavily neglected blades. I would suggest the SG320 and Shapton Pro 2k to start with. The jump is not big: I have often used the 320 to 4k without any problem, provided the deburring was as complete as possible with the first one, which takes quite some time. After that, finishing and doing the last deburring on the 4k happened in a breeze.

The 2k Pro is a very interesting stone. Slightly coarser than indicates, it still is very easy in obtaining a full deburring. It isn't that aggressive that while abrading the old burr, it raises a new one.

 

[M1k3]

Most people's favorites of the Pro (international market by the way)/Ha no kuromaku (Japan Domestic Market) are the 1k and 2k (this one has a really nice feeling when sharpening compared to the others). 12k for razers.

The Glass line the 500, 3k and 4k.

2 glass stones can fit inside a Pro case.

Glass stones fit the top of the Pro case also.

 The Glass 7 stones are smaller versions of the regular ones.

 

[Choppin]

SG220: major thinning, reprofiling, tip repair
SG500: setting a bevel, sharpening dull knives (including "decent" western stainless... for $10 knives though I'd start with the SG220 and low pressure)
SG1k or SG2k or SP2k: sharpening carbon steel, finishing stainless, touching up (keep in mind SP2k is slightly coarser than SG2k)

What kind of knives do you own? SG220 / SG500 / SP2k sounds like a pretty versatile kit. Or SG2k instead of SP2k if you have more carbon than stainless knives. Or ditch the SG220 for now if you have only better quality stainless and don't like doing major work (but I got one when I was beginning and found it very useful... lots of tip repairs lol).

In my experience Shapton stones are superior to King for most applications... I'd get a Shapton (either Pro or Glass) if it fits your budget.

(from the Shapton Pro series I have only tried the 1k and 2k so can't say about the others...)

 

[BarryMM]

I pretty much always start with a very coarse stone, a 220 pink brick or JNS 300 Matukusuyama. Regardless of the state of the knife. Getting the first bur is just very quick. After that depends on the knife and purpose. For cheap stainless no higher than 1k. VG10 3k.

 

[nijiumu]

Most people's favorites of the Pro (international market by the way)/Ha no kuromaku (Japan Domestic Market) are the 1k and 2k (this one has a really nice feeling when sharpening compared to the others). 12k for razers.

The Glass line the 500, 3k and 4k.

2 glass stones can fit inside a Pro case.

Glass stones fit the top of the Pro case also.

 The Glass 7 stones are smaller versions of the regular ones.

Very helpful, thanks.

 

[nijiumu]

What kind of knives do you own? SG220 / SG500 / SP2k sounds like a pretty versatile kit. Or SG2k instead of SP2k if you have more carbon than stainless knives. Or ditch the SG220 for now if you have only better quality stainless and don't like doing major work (but I got one when I was beginning and found it very useful... lots of tip repairs lol).

I have a couple of gyutos in blue2, a Takamura chromax santoku, a Takamura R2 petty, a Shibazi cleaver, a cheap Chinese VG10 knife (16€, will give it away eventually) and a bunch of old stainless knives (Zwilling, Kiwi, Fiskars). I'll also be sharpening my mom's hopelessly dull knives a few times a year.

I'm leaning towards just two good stones for now. Would SG220 and SP2K work for now or is it better to go SG320 like @Benuser suggests? I like the idea of being able to add the SG500 later, which might be a bit redundant with the SG320.

 

[tostadas]

SP2k is my favorite finisher in the shapton line. I would definitely get that as one of the stones. Then the choice is up to you whether you want the 320, 500 or 1k as your more workhorse stone. Personally I'd go with the 500 or 1k for decent speed without being overly aggressive.

Consider how often you actually need to sharpen. If you're mainly a home user, you're not going to need to drop down to the low end very often after the initial sharpening, in which case the 1k would be good. If you anticipate needing to do a lot of thinning of your existing knives, then yea the 1k will be a little bit slow, but not terrible.

 

[daveb]

The SG500 and SP2000 will work for you as a two stone solution. The 220 and 320 are more suited for thinning quality knives and that's not something I would be concerned with on cheap knives - the soft steel won't hold an edge long no matter how thin.

And FWIW, the SG500 xthick, comes in a plastic box for easy transport. Shapton #500 Glass Sharpening Stone Double Thick 10mm HR

 

[Delat]

For working on edges I’d personally go with SG500 and SP2000 initially. And consider the Shapton field stone holder which is very convenient to use if you want something heavier and more stable than the SP box. I've only sharpened my old Wusthof once out of curiosity and the SG500 raised a burr on it super fast.

For thinning when you’re ready, then consider coarser stones like the 220 or 320 mentioned but I think the SG500 is a good lower-grit stone to start with. Especially as a novice, you’ll get into less trouble with it.

 

[Benuser]

I have a couple of gyutos in blue2, a Takamura chromax santoku, a Takamura R2 petty, a Shibazi cleaver, a cheap Chinese VG10 knife (16€, will give it away eventually) and a bunch of old stainless knives (Zwilling, Kiwi, Fiskars). I'll also be sharpening my mom's hopelessly dull knives a few times a year.



I'm leaning towards just two good stones for now. Would SG220 and SP2K work for now or is it better to go SG320 like @Benuser suggests? I like the idea of being able to add the SG500 later, which might be a bit redundant with the SG320.

The 220 and 320 have much the same character, the 220 being only just coarser and faster. I have both, but avoid letting the 220 touch the very edge. After the 220 I certainly need an intermediate stone before reaching to the medium-fine one. Not so with the 320. In no case a 320 will become redundant by a 500. The 500 is no real coarse stone: it isn't the one you use for removing a lot of steel. So your options would be SG320 + SP2k, or a three stones solution SG220 + SG500 + SP2k, which is an unnecessary complication. More stones, more fuss.

 

[nijiumu]

I have a couple of old, coarse stones that I've been using for the last few years to keep the SS knives from getting too dull. Are these Crystolon? They're a lot coarser than the 1k side of the Chinese stone.

Can I continue to use these for thinning and reprofiling and then go SG500 and SP2K?

 

[tostadas]

I have a couple of old, coarse stones that I've been using for the last few years to keep the SS knives from getting too dull. Are these Crystolon? They're a lot coarser than the 1k side of the Chinese stone.

Can I continue to use these for thinning and reprofiling and then go SG500 and SP2K?

Those stones can load up fast when thinning soft stainless. I bought a couple previously and really hate using them. If you don't refresh them often while thinning, the material removal rate can slow down to a crawl. They also leave deep scratches.