Steel of Heiji knives?

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I tend to agree with XooMG and "cheezburger". I prefer to know what kind of steel is being used in the particular knife. It's like ingredients on the box. You know what do you buy but the secret of making it is hidden. I think this is the "near" perfect balance of consumer knowledge vs trade secret.
I do not go to the extent of not buying this type of knifes but it definitely irritates me.
 
While we are talking about Heiji I noticed JKI has a picture of an ATS-34 damascus Gyuto looking very much like a Yoshikane SLD damascus. How comparable are those 2 steels? I also know Yoshikane offers an ATS-34 version of the SLD with the same finish.
 
Unless of course these were custom made for Japan Tool to their very own specs.
 
Or the Damascus is made with different steel than the semi-stainless, but the description is identical to his descripittion of the semi-stainless on his site.

...never thought he'd use stainless, but tried it at home and good enough to make Heiji knife ;)
 
"Knife from Heiji, is really very different from the conventional stainless steel knives. This is something Heiji-san made tentatively for his personal use at home, and since it was much better than he had expected, he figured it can be sold as "Heiji". He never believed stainless steel tools were worth selling as Heiji tools, but these, I totally agree with him that they are good enough to be made as "Heiji" brand."

From the description, it seems like something he started making relatively recently
 
"Knife from Heiji, is really very different from the conventional stainless steel knives. This is something Heiji-san made tentatively for his personal use at home, and since it was much better than he had expected, he figured it can be sold as "Heiji". He never believed stainless steel tools were worth selling as Heiji tools, but these, I totally agree with him that they are good enough to be made as "Heiji" brand."

From the description, it seems like something he started making relatively recently

no, this has been the standard copy for the semi-stainless knives for years.
 
But ATS-34 is not a semi-stainless steel.

the semi-stainless has been called stainless on many sites for a long time. I remember reading the story about Heiji-san and his having forged "stainless" blades for his own home use from back when I first got into Japanese kitchen knives.
 
Well I thought this thread remained pretty civil IMO :)
XooMG with respect, I think you are taking this rather personally.
I don't think knife makers are distrusting you the consumer.
Perhaps nakaya heiji doesn't want to release his steel for fear of creating marketing hype about that steel, allowing other makers to potentially gain business off his hard work?

It's already been mentioned but say hypothetically I wanted to start making kitchen knives. If I made them in aeb-l or 52100 then I would have more business due to other makers hard work building hype about these steels.
 
I don't really see how any of this was personal... I have no problem with xoomg or his posts here... I actually liked that we could have this kind of conversation in here
 
I enjoyed it too. Sorry for the confusion what I meant was I feel he may be taking makers choosing to not reveal their steel types personally.
I also enjoy XooMG's comments and conversations
 
However, this just isn't very groovy, and not needed. Tsk Tsk Tsk

Why not? I didn't say anything negative. In fact, at least one member agreed with what I wrote.

You're assuming a lot about what I wrote which is no more "groovy" than what you're accusing me of. And if you're going to criticize me, you should also criticize others who agree with me.

But, if you want you single me out, go for it. I'll be happy to pay extra attention to what you write.
 
Why not? I didn't say anything negative. In fact, at least one member agreed with what I wrote.

You're assuming a lot about what I wrote which is no more "groovy" than what you're accusing me of. And if you're going to criticize me, you should also criticize others who agree with me.

But, if you want you single me out, go for it. I'll be happy to pay extra attention to what you write.

Pretty sure you proved any point he was trying to make.
 
I can very much understand the makers in this particular issue. My main work is as a photographer and a printer. I mostly print exhibitions for museums and galleries. In doing so, I spend a lot of time researching paper and particular printing techniques. On several occasions, I have had people ask me what papers I use because they liked my work, and then proceed to ask cheaper print-shops to print for them on those papers. In one case, a well-known photographer came to my studio and I did some test prints for him. He said they were the best prints he had ever seen of his work, and he wanted me to print his exhibition for him. I really wanted to do it, so I gave him as low a quote as I possibly could. He said he was fine with it, so I went and bought over a thousand dollars of paper to do the job (it was fairly large). I did not hear from him for a while, and finally called him to see what the status was. He had printed in China for little more than the cost that I had to pay for the paper. The work was done on the same paper, but did not look very good.

I do not hide the papers I use from my customers...I happily promote them, as they are among the finest available, but I can certainly sympathize, however, with the makers who don't like to tell people exactly what their components are. It is extremely frustrating at times to see people who think they can predetermine the results based on the components. I had another customer who came in for some test prints and then told me, "Oh, I did not realize how important the paper was. I just got the paper and my friend printed it for me." I did not see the final result, but I am fairly certain mine would have been better...I hope not to sound too arrogant in saying that, but this is something I live and breathe! When you get a print from me, the paper and printer that I use are not the largest component in the quality of the work...it is the experience I have in using them properly, in having the whole process calibrated and controlled, and the time spent in working with you to get it exactly how you want it.

In the same way, the steel in a Heiji knife has been very carefully chosen by Heiji to fulfill his requirements in a kitchen knife, and his method of production will give that steel unique properties. The fact that it is steel number XYZ from Japan or Sweden really has little to do with the actual results. I agree, however, that it can be really interesting to know the details, especially if the curiosity is from a good place (which I think it usually is!). In this context, I think respecting the maker's choice is best, and if it is a problem for you, I would suggest contacting them or the vendor and talking to them about it, perhaps they will not tell you, but I am sure they will tell you about their steels properties and why they choose it. If it still does not satisfy you, there are many craftsmen making wonderful knives that are completely open about their raw materials.
 
what this guy said +10

I can very much understand the makers in this particular issue. My main work is as a photographer and a printer. I mostly print exhibitions for museums and galleries. In doing so, I spend a lot of time researching paper and particular printing techniques. On several occasions, I have had people ask me what papers I use because they liked my work, and then proceed to ask cheaper print-shops to print for them on those papers. In one case, a well-known photographer came to my studio and I did some test prints for him. He said they were the best prints he had ever seen of his work, and he wanted me to print his exhibition for him. I really wanted to do it, so I gave him as low a quote as I possibly could. He said he was fine with it, so I went and bought over a thousand dollars of paper to do the job (it was fairly large). I did not hear from him for a while, and finally called him to see what the status was. He had printed in China for little more than the cost that I had to pay for the paper. The work was done on the same paper, but did not look very good.

I do not hide the papers I use from my customers...I happily promote them, as they are among the finest available, but I can certainly sympathize, however, with the makers who don't like to tell people exactly what their components are. It is extremely frustrating at times to see people who think they can predetermine the results based on the components. I had another customer who came in for some test prints and then told me, "Oh, I did not realize how important the paper was. I just got the paper and my friend printed it for me." I did not see the final result, but I am fairly certain mine would have been better...I hope not to sound too arrogant in saying that, but this is something I live and breathe! When you get a print from me, the paper and printer that I use are not the largest component in the quality of the work...it is the experience I have in using them properly, in having the whole process calibrated and controlled, and the time spent in working with you to get it exactly how you want it.

In the same way, the steel in a Heiji knife has been very carefully chosen by Heiji to fulfill his requirements in a kitchen knife, and his method of production will give that steel unique properties. The fact that it is steel number XYZ from Japan or Sweden really has little to do with the actual results. I agree, however, that it can be really interesting to know the details, especially if the curiosity is from a good place (which I think it usually is!). In this context, I think respecting the maker's choice is best, and if it is a problem for you, I would suggest contacting them or the vendor and talking to them about it, perhaps they will not tell you, but I am sure they will tell you about their steels properties and why they choose it. If it still does not satisfy you, there are many craftsmen making wonderful knives that are completely open about their raw materials.
 
"a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing". Oscar Wilde, on the cynic.

This thread is making me want a carbon Heiji.
 
He he, I have 4 on order but need to wait until June... 3 custom nakiris and one petty, all stainless.
 
This is a surprising order to me...gifts? or each of them intended for something different?

I am reading a lot how people have a designated knife for designated task. I am taking this further. I want to have one for onions, one for carrots and separate for zucchini. I want o have different patina on all of them ;)

Just kidding, yes they are gifts for my 2 kids and nephew...
 
I am reading a lot how people have a designated knife for designated task. I am taking this further. I want to have one for onions, one for carrots and separate for zucchini. I want o have different patina on all of them ;)

Just kidding, yes they are gifts for my 2 kids and nephew...

I missed the joke? You don't have an onion knife? ;-)
 
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