Stone set guidance - which is best

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by Gubernaculum, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. Nov 8, 2019 #1

    Gubernaculum

    Gubernaculum

    Gubernaculum

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    Located in the UK but will be in the US in next couple weeks so can buy in either country. Looking for advice on a solid set of stones that will last me as I learn to sharpen. Will need to be able to sharpen western stainless steel (Wusthof, Henckels) and a few Japanese knives (SG2 and stainless clad Aogami Super). I am a home cook. Preferably not spending too much money (not really looking past $200) but willing to if it is substantially better/will last longer.

    From reading the threads already on the forum, I am deliberating between:

    The King 1000/6000 (although it has been said to dish a lot), and would need a coarser stone as well right?

    Beston 500
    Bester 1200
    Suehiro Rika 5K

    The Naniwa Chosera line, if so what combination of stones would I want?

    The Shapton Pro or Shapton Glass line, again if so what combination of stones would I want?

    The Gesshin line also looks nice, if so what combination of stones would I want? Does seem a bit more expensive than the rest, is it worth the higher price?

    I will also likely buy a Atoma Diamond 140 for lapping.

    Thank you for your advice on this.
     
  2. Nov 8, 2019 #2

    KingShapton

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    Shapton Pro 1000/2000/5000 or Shapton Glass 500/2000/6000.

    Both the Pro 2000 and the Glass 2000 is a very good finisher for soft stainless like Wüsthof, Henckels etc.

    If you prefer to stay with the Kings, then I recommend the newer generation King Hyper 1000 (hard) and King Hyper 2000 and an Arashiyama 6000.

    I would prefer the Shaptons, but that's a matter of personal preference.
     
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  3. Nov 8, 2019 #3
    Do you have enough experience to know if you have a preference for soakers vs splash and go stones?

    Agree with above on Shapton Pro 1000, 2000, maybe 5000 for splash and go. They run about $60/stone on Amazon here last time I looked.

    The Gesshin 1K and 6K diamond plates are a buy it once, buy it for life solution though priced just over $300. I like these a lot and if I could only have one set......

    For soakers I find the Bestor 1200, Rika 5K a good, and economical solution. (Will never own another Bestor 500)

    Best soakers ever are the Gesshin 2K, and G4K or G6K

    Gesshin flattening plate is also quite good.

    Don't like King at all but have not tried the newer, said to be non-suck, Hypers
     
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  4. Nov 8, 2019 #4

    Scribbled

    Scribbled

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    As an upgrade to ghastly Chinese stones I got a shapton pro 1000 and 5000 with some pasted balsa boards as strops. I’m very happy with them: I’m using a Chinese natural at about 400ish too.
     
  5. Nov 9, 2019 #5

    Steel+Fire

    Steel+Fire

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    I have a Suehiro Rika 5k. It is an excellent finishing stone as well as being a perfect final stone for sharpening kitchen knives. It does a pretty decent kasumi type finish on iron clad blades. Makes a nice smoke colored cladding and pretty mirror blade steel. The edge off of the 5K is pretty good too. Nice bite to the edge and it works great on veg and proteins alike. It needs a good long soak before use though. I usually soak it for 10-20 minutes before use. It gets nice and muddy if you soak it properly so you won't need to use a plate or nigura to get a solid slurry formed.
     
  6. Nov 9, 2019 #6

    kayman67

    kayman67

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    There might not be such thing as "best", but definitely some provide an easier route.

    I've started using Nanohone 200 and 400.
    200 is nice, very homogeneous finish even for some higher grit stones, let alone a 200. Still, I can't say I've found a lower grit to my liking so far.
    400 on the other hand is really good. Almost does what 2 or 3 stones would do 'till a 2-3k takeover. Not really that expensive. You might not even want something over.
    Anyway, if you don't plan on using Bester 1200 soaked really well, having it with Beston 500 is a bit redundant. I have them both. Rika is always a nice stone.

    Chosera won't qualify for that budget. I might be able to help in EU with something, but still will push above budget limit.

    Keep in mind that Shapton Pro 1000 is more like 600-800 other stones are, so getting 1000 + 2000 is not really redundant. Yet again, a Shapton Glass 3000 might be nicer.

    Gesshin are very nice stones, had most of them, liked them all. I still use a couple for my single bevel knives.

    What I would do? Hard to say. Maybe from US I would get Nanohone 400 + Atoma. Both are in the same place, so it should be easy enough. From EU Shapton Glass 3k HR + 6k HC, as prices are lower. Some of these are also on Dictum in Germany, so you could do some math just to see what's what.
    But I like the Chosera and Gesshin lines as well, amongst other options.
     
  7. Nov 9, 2019 #7

    Gubernaculum

    Gubernaculum

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    Thank you all for the replies, there doesn't seem to be a best set I agree. If I got the Shapton pro 1000, 2000 and 5000 would I need anything coarser than that or is the 1000 enough to start on for the stainless? It does seem like splash and go is more convenient but I may just be being lazy there.

    Daveb what do you mean you will never own another Bestor 500? Is that because it lasts a very long time or because you didn't like it?

    Kayman can I ask what makes the Shapton Glass 3000 better? If so, where would I place that in a line up/set?
     
  8. Nov 9, 2019 #8

    adam92

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    I think if you have shapton pro 1000, you don't need 2000 for sure, Jump to 5000 is better, can keep toothy feel which is good for tomato, pepper/ protein.

    I would recommend another coarse stone for fixing chip,thinning & set up new bevel.

    Atoma is a good choice for flatting your whetstone and sharpening, Extremely fast compare to other stone but some people don't like the tactile feeling.
     
  9. Nov 9, 2019 #9

    KingShapton

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    The Shapton Pro 1000 is more like a 800 grit stone and is very fast.
    Definitely fast enough to start on stainless. You will need a coarser stone only for thinning or for bigger repairs.
    Correct, but the 2000 is a really good finisher for stainless and the thread-opener has a lot wüsthof and Henkels. The 2000 ist also really good for touchups and a nice, toothy Edge.
     
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  10. Nov 9, 2019 #10

    KingShapton

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    @Gubernaculum : Shapton Glass 3000 is a great stone, I love this stone. But for soft stainless like your western knives, 3000 is to much in my opinion. That is the main reason why I recommend the 2000 in your case.

    Atoma for lapping is a good choice.
     
  11. Nov 9, 2019 #11

    kayman67

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    Yeah, might be just nuances to 3k, since I also like the 2k. If I were to get the NH 400, I would definitely consider 3k though.
     
  12. Nov 9, 2019 #12

    inferno

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    you definitely want a coarser faster stone than the pro1k imo. epecially if reprofiling/thinning/working on chipped blades/working on other people knives.

    the glass 500 double thick is the way to go imo. or even the pro/glass 220. it will save you a TON of time.

    my go to stones are also the shapton pro and glass. they wear very slow/low dish, spalsh and go for real, dry fast, cut fastest of any stone i have tried for their grit rating.

    a good 2 stone combo would be the glass 500 double thick and the 3k. then you dont need a 1k.

    3 stones: 220, 1k (pros) and the 3 or 4k glass. or 6k. but 6k is a waste of time on most stainless. 3k is usually the max for these imo. 4k for powder ss.
    the 4k clogs faster than the 3k, and also the 3k feels better, the 3k is one of the best allround glass stones imo. very good compromise regarding speed/sharpness/price/general usability

    very soft stainless like globals dont need more than 2k. then get the cheapest of the glass/pro, its almost the same stone imo.

    with that being said, the ones i have kept and still own myself are the pro in 220/1k/2k/8k/12k and glass in 220/500/1k/2k/3k/4k/6k hc and they are all good. cant go wrong really.

    and i simply agree with what kingshapton says :)
     
  13. Nov 9, 2019 #13

    inferno

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    its too slow for other peoples regular chipped knives though. what takes you maybe 15-20 minutes on the pro 1k the 220 does in like 1-2, and the 500 glass in like 3-4 minutes or so. in my experience at least. i work on a lot of my coworkers knives. and they are all chipped and god knows what. speed is king here imo.
     
  14. Nov 9, 2019 #14
    Did not like it. I let it permasoak but could never find a sweet spot between too wet and too dry in use. JNS 300 is my favorite coarse stone and I've been told the JKI is quite similar. If you're going with other Shapton the 320 Pro works well.
     
  15. Nov 9, 2019 #15

    kayman67

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    I don't permasoak it. Just no bubbles plus a few minutes more before I use it, water once in a while. That's all it needs. Works fast, doesn't require pressure, but some stainless steels would clog it to some degree.
     
  16. Nov 9, 2019 #16

    inferno

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    for really coarse work on a budget look into the atoma 140. it will also flatten your regular stones. they wear out in a few years if doung thinning/flattening blades and also flattening stones.

    i have the atoma 400 and it can flatten any regular stone too. then you wont need a coarse regular stone, since this is it.

    all diamond stones leave very deep scratches though. the 140 or 160 or whatever it is is extreme. and it also feels like sh1t to sharpen on them.
     
  17. Nov 9, 2019 #17

    KingShapton

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    Maybe I expressed myself in a misunderstanding - bigger repairs meant chipped knives and for that you need a coarser stone than the 1000. For thinning and major repairs I agreed with @inferno.
     
  18. Nov 9, 2019 #18

    LostHighway

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    I am a rank beginner relative to many here but for a simple two stone set I really like the Shapton Glass 500 and the Shapton Pro 2K. I have coarser stones than the Shapton 500, including the JNS 300, but I rarely feel the need to use them. The 2K Shapton will give you an entirely acceptable kitchen working edge but it probably will grab a bit cutting paper towels if that is your thing. I defer to Inferno's far greater experience but I think the Shapton Pro 5K is also a good finishing stone for a modest budget.
     
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  19. Nov 9, 2019 #19

    kayman67

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    When this happens, I use 140+400. Just to get that surface to a better feeling.
     
  20. Nov 9, 2019 #20

    K813zra

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    Me, I'd do this.

    1st: Flattening plate (there are temporary solutions but from experience I'd skip them)
    2nd: 800/1k (either or not both)
    3rd: 2/3k (ditto)
    4th: Strop (newsprint wrapped around your stone works fine)
    5th: 220/320 (ditto)
    6th: Finishing stone

    To me that is the order of importance in stone purchases. Note that I am a home cook who only needs to do repairs (major repairs that is) on projects and to me that is a different topic altogether. And this of course is jmo.

    PS: Shapton pro stones are just fine. Go with whatever you think makes sense. If you have nothing to compare them to it won't matter anyway.
     
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  21. Nov 9, 2019 #21

    inferno

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    in my experience i have the dmt diaflat (160 or whatever it is, the high grit one), atoma 400, dmt c (325 mesh afaik).

    is that all of them needs to be followed up by regular stones. and a shapton 220 is faster than all of these and the atoma 140. the scratches takes ages to remove from the coarsest diamond stones!
    everyone is hereby warned!

    also look into the diamond plate progression on https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/01/the-diamond-plate-progression/
    finer is NOT finer/better with diamonds.
     
  22. Nov 9, 2019 #22

    inferno

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    i agree but i would get a 500/3k instead of 1k/3 to start.

    but if one has th3e budget from the getgo. i'd get coarse 220ish/med 1k ish, Stainless fine 2k, good stainless 3-4k, then carbon finisher 6k. then a D plate on top of that. most likely the atoma 400 or 140. or the dmt XC.

    i'd say that invery very very few occasion one would need finer than 6k. and then its mostly just for fun anyway. not really needed. but its fun.
    i fileted a free hanging toilet paper (serla brand) in 2 off my shapton 12k.

    is its very useful?? not really. but its kinda fun when you do it.
     
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  23. Nov 11, 2019 #23

    Ivan Hersh

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    If i was today starting again it would be with a 400 or 800 and a 2000.
     
  24. Nov 13, 2019 #24

    adam92

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    Hi guys,

    Just wondering I've already have shapton pro 320
    atoma 400 & 1200
    suehiro cerax 1000
    shapton pro 2000
    arashiyama 6000
    naniwa junpaku 8000.

    I sharpening my single bevel knife until 8000 & chef knife until 1000/2000. Should i get one more shapton glass 500? or might be waste since am already have atoma 400?
     
  25. Nov 13, 2019 #25

    Michi

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    Seeing that you already have a 320, I don't see the point of adding a 500. There is no issue going from 320 to 1000, so a 500-grit stone probably won't do a lot for you.
     
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  26. Nov 13, 2019 #26

    Kristoffer

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    Hey! Where’s the enabling here? I thought this was a place to come when Reason was giving you doubts on whether you need something new or not?

    Of course you should get the 500! I’ve heard only good things about it! It seems to be almost universally recommended in fact.

    Also... you should not listen to any of my inexperienced advice. As you were, carry on, and maybe even take Michi’s advice. It does in fact seem very reasonably considering how well covered you are in the low grits.
     
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  27. Nov 13, 2019 #27

    M1k3

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    If you find the jump from 320 to 1k takes you quite awhile to remove scratches, go for the 500. Otherwise you look like you got all your bases covered. Maybe a 120ish stone and flattening plate? But that's only for major work.
     
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  28. Nov 13, 2019 #28

    adam92

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    Thanks Michi, I'll stick with my 320 .
     
  29. Nov 13, 2019 #29

    adam92

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    I have flatting plate, my 320 shapton pro maybe can last another half/one year, i properly get 500 glass after dish out, 320 is good, but only dish very fast if i doing thinning job
     

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