Stropping on medium grit stones

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by suntravel, Sep 23, 2019.

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  1. Oct 9, 2019 #151

    Desert Rat

    Desert Rat

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    Bur sharpening isn't the only way to do it.
    What happens when them oil stone users take light alternating edge leading strokes, are they flipping a wire edge from one side to the other?
     
  2. Oct 9, 2019 #152

    HRC_64

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    The interesting idea is for deburr removal if you can use ulutra-low pressure to avoid problems...
    either by avoiding burr formation or (potentially) avoiding slurry contamination/creation, etc...

    Edge leading strokes don't creat burrs, plastic deformation is going the wront way...
    but you have to give up waterstones and use oilstones...which is a non-starter.

    On waterstones, the problem is abrasive slurry and edge leading strokes
    don't really go together...pretty sure this is why Japanese method
    doesn't do edge leading...

    somdbody can probalby correct this if its wrong,
    but it just seems like common sense :dunno:
     
  3. Oct 9, 2019 #153

    ian

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    I don’t know. Edge leading works fine for me on waterstones. You can certainly keep washing off your stone, for one, although I’m not sure how much even a thick slurry would damage an edge. It seems reasonable that it might. However, there are tons of conjectures you can make about sharpening by trying to visualize what’s happening at a microscopic level, and some of them turn out to be bogus since what you’re imagining isn’t actually significant to the end result. Anyway, I’ve found edge leading to be vastly better than edge trailing for burr removal on waterstones, especially on crappy stainless. (I do generally wash away the slurry during burr removal.)
     
  4. Oct 9, 2019 #154

    Midsummer

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    Uwe,
    Thanks for the micrographs. Those are at 230 magnification? It would be neat to see the edge at 2k! Would love to have the habit of routinely checking each bevel at the time of sharpening. I imagine it would be very instructive. Thank you for your observations. Cheers!
     
  5. Oct 9, 2019 #155

    Chef Doom

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    The only time I ever used oil stones was when I did not know how to sharpen. It was like the old guys that know nothing about car repair standing around the engine drinking beer talking about women and sports with a turn of the socket wrench from time to time. Eventually someone pours water where the brake fluid was supposed to go.
     
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  6. Oct 9, 2019 #156

    Nemo

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    Edge leading strokes on a waterstone works fine for burr refinement for me. FWIW, I always rinse the stone first.
     
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  7. Oct 9, 2019 #157
    The slurry can definitely be an issue - and increasingly so if you go ti finner grits (and wanting ever finer edge). If you look at straight razor honing - it is basically all done with edge leading (save for stropping). But even there - on a finishing natural stone - one uses VERY little slurry and adds water during this last honing stage to thin the slurry to control the dulling of the cutting edge (depending on the hardness of the stone sometimes the final touches are made with just water and no slurry). Final edge is achieved with stropping on cloth & leader - that is something we do not often do with knives. It is also the stage that makes is super easy to kill the edge (most likely my current problem with straight razor honing, btw.) - with knives it would be even easier to kill the super fine edge here.

    So yes - I agree - edge leading strokes should not only be super light, but also done without slurry (unless one goes all the way up to super fine and hard natural stones) - at least on synthetic stones. I would also assume that the finishing stone should not be super soft as it would probably tend to abrade the edge more. I am guessing that the angle will have a large impact too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  8. Oct 9, 2019 #158

    Kozuka

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    As someone who loves all systems, let it be Freehand or Guided or Edge Pro Apex style, I really think this is super interesting.

    Matter of fact I visited Uwe couple weeks ago and watched his deburr technique closely. I also started to deburr this way now and can say from (only a few) sharpening and cooking sessions so far that my sharpness now feels cleaner and lasts longer before it degrades.

    Before this method I experimented with edge trailing / cork / leather combinations. Sometimes all, sometimes mixed, sometimes only one each.

    Now I only do the Uwe-Deburr and it just works. (I just use the same stone as I finish on, no special Voodoo-Stone - typically Nakayama or Morihei Karasu 9000)
     
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  9. Oct 9, 2019 #159

    Desert Rat

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    I believe this is correct. I do think edge leading can create a bur of sorts. Probably caused by excessive pressure and the apex digging into the stone or a soft stone, however one chooses to look at it.
     
  10. Oct 9, 2019 #160

    Sharpchef

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    Slurry dulling is something straight razor guys argue about... But only on Coticules.... (I tested quite a few of them maybe 200 ? and i don`t think this is common even on coticules. ) .. There was only one belgian that really was not able to get a razor shave ready....

    Some years ago i made this vid to demonstrate how dead simple razor honing on a coticule is :



    So as you can see, and i hope most of the straight razor guys don`t use edge leading only, because it is a waste of time... , it works in finish stage only edge leading strokes.

    Arkansas or other very fine oilstones are the only stones (because they are kryptocristaline) that don`t form extensive burrs... Because they act like a file not like Sandpaper.

    The fine ones (lapped extreme fine and broken in) are not usable without a Jiig sadly. But for sure the only natural stones that can improve a 30k edge in terms of sharpness.

    Greets Sebastian.
     
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  11. Oct 9, 2019 #161

    Desert Rat

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    Ok, I am the guy you are describing struggling with a small newly purchased coticule. Been an Arkansas user my whole life and not usually a bur sharpener so the alternating edge leading strokes is my more natural way. Back to the stones I go and thanks for sharing.
     
  12. Oct 10, 2019 #162

    Sharpchef

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    No i don`t even know you ;) ... I talked about threads in Badger and Blade forum years ago...

    Greets Sebastian.
     
  13. Oct 12, 2019 #163

    captaincaed

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    I'm always trying to improve with my fine arkansas stones. Why do you say they're not usable without a jig?
     
  14. Oct 13, 2019 #164

    Sharpchef

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    I just like to say that slow stones (even synthetics in this grid range don`t make sense by hand), especially a transluent Arkansas that is broken in.... Does nearly nothing, and you need at least 50-100 passes per side, without Angle control this could last for a few hours .... ;) .

    Greets Sebastian.
     
  15. Oct 13, 2019 #165

    captaincaed

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    That’s what I thought you might say - the fatigue over time is a real factor
     

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