Stropping on medium grit stones

[Kippington]

I watched that vid some times now... And i really believe the angle to be at about 30 degree + while sharpening on dia plate and Shapton... the deburr action is about 40 degree on one side and 25 on the other ?

I have no idea what angle it is, I'm doing it by hand. Knife is about 54mm tall at the heel, if that helps.

It's more about the technique than the variables. You can make it work at lower angles, I just uploaded a quick recording in 5 mins to show what I mean.
I don't see this method get mentioned often and it works well for me. I figured it was on-topic to this thread.

 

[suntravel]

Whats the angle of the bevel here? It looks pretty steep compared to what I see most people using.

it is 18°

Regards

Uwe

 

[Kippington]

I watched that vid some times now... And i really believe the angle to be at about 30 degree + while sharpening on dia plate and Shapton... the deburr action is about 40 degree on one side and 25 on the other ?

Why the single really high angle edge trailing stroke before starting the 30-35 edge leading microbevel?

Guys, it's more about the technique than the details. I recorded and uploaded this video in 5 minutes due to a request a few posts before, taking the little details away (other than the deburring) would be missing the point.
It can be done with different grits and different angles.

 

[ian]

Guys, it's more about the technique than the details. I recorded and uploaded this video in 5 minutes due to a request a few posts before, taking the little details away would be missing the point.

Sure, that makes sense. But to differentiate the technique from the details, it helps to ask these kind of questions. Your response tells me that the things we were noticing aren't essential, which is good information. Thanks!

 

[Kippington]

The point was mainly to show the deburr at 35 seconds and 40 seconds. Bend the burr over till it breaks off, then do whatever you need to do to get the knife sharp again (without bringing another burr in). Shouldn't take long.

 

[ian]

Oh, I see. The deburr at 35 seconds was actually what I was asking about. That makes a lot of sense now. Can't wait to try. Thanks for the vid.

 

[RDalman]

Screw it I'll chip in. In my experience, I don't fancy Sebastians edge he sharpens with the gizmo (he did it on a knife for me "to prove" once and it was folded in places, and didnt hold)
But I agree with the technique, here's what I do typically
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzsk749iNXD/?igshid=f2zt88a2h06d

 

[Sharpchef]

Here is my freehand attempt... sorry bad vid, but it basically works in any way with less strokes... Shapton Pro 1k , Coticule, Knife is a cheapo Shirogami2 (two strokes per side total). So my point is, cutting paper is nice , but has nothing to do with the work in the kitchen . The only paper i cut there is backing paper...



I know we can`t see me actually cut the paper, sorry the cameragirl wasn`t at home . But take this for serious please. What i want to tell is, it is very easy so resharpen a knife (that is thin behind the edge) to arm hair shaving, cutting ordinary paper etc... we don ´t even need two kind of stones....

@RDalman : As expected . You really are the only one that disliked one of my edges... Maybe there was a failure anywhere , well no one is perfect .

Greets Sebastian.

 

[Kippington]

So you don't deburr at all?

 

[Sharpchef]

So you don't deburr at all?

I did it just like you with less strokes and lower sharpening angle ? (about 18-20 degree per side i guess, nothing really measurable by hand...). May i have missed something on your vid ? (so i have to say sorry if this is the case!)

Greets Sebastian.

 

[Kippington]

Yes, you have completely missed the point of my vid. I give up.

 

[Sharpchef]

Yes, you have completely missed the point of my vid. I give up.

Yep, i understand ... A comedian could not explain it better .

Greets Sebastian.

 

[suntravel]

cutting printerpaper is very easy and has nothing to do with how good or long a blade will go trough tomatoes

But showing imperssive stuff is easy, like the cheap Komagiri chopping wood and then be sharp enough for cutting tissue....

... most more expensive knives will fail on stuff like this without performing much better in the kitchen, but this says nothing about the quality on the board

Regards

Uwe

 

[Carl Kotte]

I’ve been following this thread. But I have to say that it’s started to look like a travesty of a discussion.

@Kippington shows a really cool thing I’ve never thought of or seen before.

Sharpchef misses the point and makes a video of the thing I’d suspect most of us do.

And suntravel fills in by pointing out the obvious truth that cutting printer paper does not tell a whole lot about performance on the board and edge retention.
But, that was never the issue.

What happened to the old art of communication. This is all very confusing.

 

[Sharpchef]

so please explain why i miss the point of kips vid ? I do exactly the same, but obviously without obscure angles ? And the easy option like i showed is faster ? with same cutting ability ? so what do i miss ? You may fooling me, but i don`t get it really .

Greets Sebastian.

 

[HRC_64]

...wouldn't that mean it's affecting the accuracy of the bevel you did with a sharpening jig?

Gonna argue devils advocate here just for a second...

I really think the burr removal under light pressure is the intersting idea here,
the angle precision concept of jigs is a red-herring.

Its pretty common for old-school grinder to have "tool rests"
for the same reason as the jig...if you held onto a the workpiece
in free-space (6 degree of freedom) you need to pressure the work more
than if you reduce the degree of freedom by resting on a tool-rest...

Thus you get less problems using lighter pressure and "let abrasive do work"

but i only really see this advantage at the burr removal stage,
not at the stage of doing other steps appreciably better.

This relates to OP because "stropping" is a burr removal process
..fundamentally etc

 

[kayman67]

Someone demonstrated a different deburr motion, as requested. Someone else, a stropping procedure. And there is a lot of debate over unrelated things. This will confuse the heck out of anyone that doesn't have the knowledge to identify elements like these.

 

[Matus]

Guys, this is still a very interesting thread. But maybe a little more effort could be at times invested in trying to explain ones point and understanding the one of the other side, rather then trying to prove the other side is wrong (or worse).

 

[labor of love]

This is a great discussion. But Im still not convinced theres a single way to sharpen knives that is superior to all others. I think as long youre using a consistent angle, sharpening on a stone long enough to raise a burr(the size of which is your preference), deburr by whatever technique you prefer the results will be great.

My big take away is that I really need to start playing around with edge leading strokes, which I do not have the muscle memory for so its kinda awkward. But enough guys seem to like it so Im open to it.

 

[KingShapton]

There are many ways to sharpen a knife with very good results. Everyone has to find his own way.

 

[Carl Kotte]

Guys, this is still a very interesting thread. But maybe a little more effort could be at times invested in trying to explain ones point and understanding the one of the other side, rather then trying to prove the other side is wrong (or worse).

Matus, you said what I wanted to say! Well put!
And I agree. It is interesting and I for one feel like I have a lot to learn from it.

 

[stringer]

I was going to make a video when I got home from work to demonstrate high angle passes but I found this one which explains it at least a coherent as I can, probably more so.

 

[stringer]

A couple of thoughts to add now that I have a chance.
I don't really ever try to keep steady angles. I start out thinning until I get a burr. By thinning I mean that my angle is pretty much as flat as it can be for that knife. Then I gradually move my finger pressure down closer to the edge, alternating back and forth. Raising a burr, flipping (technically switching) the knife. Until I'm focused right on the edge. As I move closer to the edge I do steadily diminishing pressure as well. The result is a slightly convex zero grind. Then I add a micro bevel appropriate for the knife. That could be just on one side, both sides symmetrical, both sides assymetrical, flat or convex or blended into the original grind or whatever. And then after that I add my nano bevel. That's what I call the result of the high angle pass. It's usually about a 75-90 degree inclusive micro micro bevel. I don't get rid of it like he does in the video either. That's my working Apex. I will strop it a little. Just a few strokes on my hand or newspaper or a stretched kitchen rag.
The Science of Sharp guy says that the way this works is a high angle pass, even with a feather touch puts an extreme amount of pressure on the edge because you are impacting such a small surface area. This results in a lot of plastic deformation. The guy in the video demonstrates the high angle pass part pretty well. That's the only reason I shared it.
You don't have to go so extreme to see the benefit.
I started just going a few degrees above my main micro bevel, but since I've started playing with straight razors my feather touch game has seen big improvements. I've been testing this on everything I have. Shirogami, VG10, Aebl, 52100, Super Aogami, 1095, W2, O2. No exotic stuff. You end up with a nice sharp sturdy working edge. For medium coarseness. I don't think this strategy is necessary if you are Finishing on actual finishing stones. But it's a good way to deal with deburring when you aren't planning on sharpening to 8000+ grit or using JNats or whatever. But always edge leading for all of it.

 

[Benuser]

My big take away is that I really need to start playing around with edge leading strokes, which I do not have the muscle memory for so its kinda awkward. But enough guys seem to like it so Im open to it.

It's rather simple, I can now say, afterwards. Same as finding a stropping angle for leather — with this difference, that I would take the stropping angle slightly smaller, but that's another discussion. Just as an edge bites in leather it does in a stone, in a piece of wood or in cardboard. You may verify by creating a huge fat burr and find out what you feel on the moistened stone. If you don't believe it, check with a marker and a loupe.

 

[kayman67]

This is a great discussion. But Im still not convinced theres a single way to sharpen knives that is superior to all others. I think as long youre using a consistent angle, sharpening on a stone long enough to raise a burr(the size of which is your preference), deburr by whatever technique you prefer the results will be great.

My big take away is that I really need to start playing around with edge leading strokes, which I do not have the muscle memory for so its kinda awkward. But enough guys seem to like it so Im open to it.

Do a bit of reverse engineering, using a path you are already comfortable with. Soon enough everything will feel natural either way. And try using a soft stone. As soft as possible. This will give you best pressure development while sharpening on anything later on.

 

[driver]

Not bad idea..., but I'd prefer another device.

 

[Nikabrik]

It's really funny for me, because i grew up doing edge leading strokes, and moved away from them once I got into sharpening with sandpaper and then got my King 1k/6k.

I know some j-stones, especially the King 1k,have a reputation for rounding apexes when used edge-leading. I don't know if that's accurate, but I recall hearing it, so I've avoided that so far. I'm curious to try edge leading on the 6k side.

 

[suntravel]

Soft stones like King 6k or Gold are the best teachers for holding an angle, because you will cut in the stone edge leading by the slightest error, maybe thats the reason the self called master Carter uses them edge trailing

Regards

Uwe

 

[bennyprofane]

Yes, you have completely missed the point of my vid. I give up.

I think, I also missed it. Could you maybe try to explain it a little more because I am sincerely interested.

 

[labor of love]

Alright, back on topic.
I use a method of burr removal that I've never seen mentioned on this forum. It's the one that's similar to bread knifing, running the edge down a fine stone diagonally with the least amount of pressure possible. The idea being to fold it over and cut it off with edge leading strokes. Has anyone here tried this method before?

@bennyprofane