Takeda cleaver comparison - New vs Old (pic heavy)

[Justin0505]

ths bevel on my nakiri and then ts now the best cuter that i own. Food release is also excellent with the new grind, and im guessing is a big part od tye reason for changing.

Ugh so taptalk cut half of my post off and apparently failed auto correct too.

What I was trying to say was that I have a Takeda nakiri with this grind and its one of the best cutters i own while also being low drag and excellent at food release.

My blade was very thin to begin with, but I spent less than an hour streamlining behind the edge.

A cleaver would be a slightly bigger undertaking, but the 270mm passaround gyuto i used also wouldnt have taken much work to get it cutting more like how most ppl on here like.

 

[chobint]

Well then I stand corrected on my forging comment. That picture of the S grind does seem to be whats going on with my knife and it is indeed a wedging monster. I have begun thinning. This is about an hours worth of work. I'm sure there's another 2-3 hours to go.

On a lighter note, I got the old cleaver stuck in the board BAD. Sword in the stone style.

 

[mkriggen]

Ugh so taptalk cut half of my post off and apparently failed auto correct too.

What I was trying to say was that I have a Takeda nakiri with this grind and its one of the best cutters i own while also being low drag and excellent at food release.

My blade was very thin to begin with, but I spent less than an hour streamlining behind the edge.

A cleaver would be a slightly bigger undertaking, but the 270mm passaround gyuto i used also wouldnt have taken much work to get it cutting more like how most ppl on here like.

LOL...I was wondering what was going on there. Thought maybe you'd gone a little heavy on the soma after working a double.:spin chair:



Be Well,
Mikey

 

[Chuckles]

FWIW I will say that using Justin's Takeda Nakiri was creepy for me. The cutting resistance on onion julienne is about the same as just waving the knife in the air. If I wasn't guiding with my left hand I am not confident I would have been able to tell when actual cutting began and ended. No exaggeration.

 

[labor of love]

Does anybody know if you can specify the old style geometry if you special order direct from Takeda?

so a takeda custom is indeed on my shortlist of future purchases...so just to be clear if i wanted an older style geometry i would request a concave grind with a large bevel?
BTW thanks for the pics chobent.

 

[Justin0505]

LOL...I was wondering what was going on there. Thought maybe you'd gone a little heavy on the soma after working a double.:spin chair:



Be Well,
Mikey

Well the fact that Ive been in Paso wine country and hit 21 tastings in 3.5 days may also have played a part....

 

[EdipisReks]

so a takeda custom is indeed on my shortlist of future purchases...so just to be clear if i wanted an older style geometry i would request a concave grind with a large bevel?
BTW thanks for the pics chobent.

Probably. The pics of his current customs look really thick, so it appears that this new grind is his default, if you don't ask for something different. Or, you could just get a knife that doesn't need specificity.

 

[erikz]

I might have a Takeda stainless nakiri on the way, and I wonder if the new ones' geometry lives up to the oldies. Thanks for showing this and stimulating my paranoia. :knife:

Here's a review on the SS Large Nakiri:

[video=youtube;BYv_mRCv9-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYv_mRCv9-Y[/video]

 

[Dave Martell]

Here's a review on the SS Large Nakiri:

[video=youtube;BYv_mRCv9-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYv_mRCv9-Y[/video]

That's an infomercial - not a "review".

For the knife, it appears to have the little fat/thick wedge bevel.

 

[erikz]

Sorry, wasnt aware of that.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Well ever since I saw Stepan's Takeda wanted one.Bought Quantum's 270mm Gyuto,he said that it was his first Takeda.It was in excellent shape,just needed a good sharpening.

Been using it for dinner prep for about a week.I can fully understand why people love these knives.It is very thin behind the edge,the bevel blends into the sides of the blade,It glides thru tomato's & cuts potato's without stiction.

I know it is a matter of taste,but I enjoy a Goose Island IPA & check out the slag finish with a Mag. glass to me it is beautiful,& functional too

 

[Oui Chef]

Here's a review on the SS Large Nakiri:

[video=youtube;BYv_mRCv9-Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYv_mRCv9-Y[/video]

"Takeda knives are know for a very high level of fit and finish."
C'mon man, I have two and we both know that's not the case.
I love my takeda's and with some thinning on the shoulder they are both brilliant cutters- but the globs of epoxy around my sasanoha's handle, the rough spine and choil on my nakiri and the fact you can physically feel that the ferrule and rosewood are not sanded down to the same height are not signatures of a knifes with 'high levels of fit and finish'.

I agree with Dave on this. This is at best a poorly biased review and at worst an infomercial.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

I don't know about the new Takeda's.The one I picked up has a big glob of epoxy at the horn.The handle itself is quite nice,I like the wide side octagons.The spine has a little bit of a wave in it,I am sure from the forge.

Does that bother me.not in the least.Tho the epoxy is a little much,you will not get any moisture in the handle.The spine has no effect in the cutting ability,which is excellent.I don't mind little imperfections on hand forged knives as long as it cuts well.As a matter of fact it gives the blade a little character.If you want perfection get a cookie cutter stainless wt. a nice rounded spine.

 

[Justin0505]

The epoxy is there by design, not accident. Asside from protecting the tang and handle, it's not uncomfortable. I sometimes hook a finger over that are when making draw cuts and appreciate the smooth roundness.

F&F of the rest of the handle has been perfect and even on all 3 of the knives that I've used.

You have to aproach these knives with the realization that Takeda has the skill to make any knid of knife that he wants, but has chosen this style with these features. They are different than other high end knives in a way that some can appreciate, but others don't understand.

 

[echerub]

From what I understand, Takeda does not make the rosewood handles himself. He has a supplier who makes them - in fact, any of the rosewood handles we tend to come across from Japanese makers are probably made by that one guy.

But yes, the gob of epoxy is a Takeda signature feature

I have no issues with Takeda's F&F, but I wouldn't call it super-refined either. It's functional and good, but not the real selling point of the knives.

 

[Oui Chef]

I have no issue with the finish either,
They deserve their cutting reputation for sure, my nakiri is the nicest thing I've ever put through an onion, you literally almost can't feel it going through the onion, it's a dream.
I just thought putting up FF as a selling point on takeda's in a vid was a touch innaccurate. I love rustic, will be getting a Kato soon hopefully, apparently not the greatest FF but apparently an amazing cutter. Personally for me it's about the moment when the knife is going through my mise en place, not looking pretty on a bench

 

[erikz]

"Takeda knives are know for a very high level of fit and finish."
C'mon man, I have two and we both know that's not the case.
I love my takeda's and with some thinning on the shoulder they are both brilliant cutters- but the globs of epoxy around my sasanoha's handle, the rough spine and choil on my nakiri and the fact you can physically feel that the ferrule and rosewood are not sanded down to the same height are not signatures of a knifes with 'high levels of fit and finish'.

I agree with Dave on this. This is at best a poorly biased review and at worst an infomercial.

Although this video might be an infomercial (I wasn't aware of that, as I've said before), one cannot deny that Takeda knives are something special. I'm sure, as Justin is, that Shosui can make any style of knife, in any way he wants. He is very skilled and takes custom orders on the fly.

I do like the rustic finish - his Kurouchi finish is one of a kind, the easy to sharpen edge and the overall thickness of his blades. The epoxy ensures a water tight finish on the handle, which lots of other makers do not have and moisture might get into the handle.

All of the qualities above made me order a custom Nakiri (AS Classic), which Shosui is going to forge for me in the coming month. It's going to be an absolute beast, but thats the way I like Nakiri's (slightly oversized at 200mm long and 65mm high).

 

[echerub]

Y'know, you're just a little shy of a chuka

 

[erikz]

Y'know, you're just a little shy of a chuka

I know Blade height is more prominent on a chuka though

 

[labor of love]

I know Blade height is more prominent on a chuka though

im usually not a nakiri person at all, but that tall blade height sounds really cool. please let us(or atleast me) know how it works out for you.

 

[XooMG]

My nakiri's first F is pretty good; it's that second F that's imperfect. Some scuffing and scratches on the ferrule, but nothing to complain about.

And for what it's worth, though mine has some characteristics of the "new" geometry that Dave regards as a problem, the knife did not have any wedging problems in thick carrots. Perhaps the heavier, thicker blades would be affected, but the nakiri did a pretty great job of not wedging or sticking. I was expecting to be disappointed after going through this thread, too.

 

[chobint]

Although this video might be an infomercial (I wasn't aware of that, as I've said before), one cannot deny that Takeda knives are something special. I'm sure, as Justin is, that Shosui can make any style of knife, in any way he wants. He is very skilled and takes custom orders on the fly.

I do like the rustic finish - his Kurouchi finish is one of a kind, the easy to sharpen edge and the overall thickness of his blades. The epoxy ensures a water tight finish on the handle, which lots of other makers do not have and moisture might get into the handle.

All of the qualities above made me order a custom Nakiri (AS Classic), which Shosui is going to forge for me in the coming month. It's going to be an absolute beast, but thats the way I like Nakiri's (slightly oversized at 200mm long and 65mm high).

Sounds awesome. Looking forward to your impressions when it arrives.

 

[chobint]

Well in case anyone needed closure on my cleaver dilemma (i did)... I've gone thru a couple stages of thinning. I started by trying to make the bevel look even and 'pretty'. The cutting performance was still unacceptable and it became apparent that there were lots of hotspots in the blade, especially toward the tip and heel. There were two things that made the blade finally perform, more thinning and straightening out the apparently warped blade. I may have been guilty of applying too much pressure while thinning, but I see now why people have described their Takedas as unacceptably thin and malleable. My new Takeda is unacceptably thin and malleable. I also flattened out the profile in the middle to give a nice sweet spot for chopping.

After all this, the new cleaver cuts like a dream as long as you have the natural weight of your shoulder and arm behind it in the push cut motion. However, it doesn't have nearly enough mass to do the wrist-flick slap-chop that the old cleaver excels at. She weighs in at 12.15oz (~345g) post thinning. I dare say I've learned that there is such a thing as too light a knife from this venture. Custom handle with depleted uranium spacers? Any takers?

 

[erikz]

im usually not a nakiri person at all, but that tall blade height sounds really cool. please let us(or atleast me) know how it works out for you.

I will! I'll post pictures and my experience with the knife in the 'newest buy' thread so you can keep up with my expierence with the knife.

Sounds awesome. Looking forward to your impressions when it arrives.

Same goes for your request

 

[erikz]

By the way, forgot to mention this; but Shosui usually produces a few copies of a custom order... So you might be able to order one with him if you like the one I'm going to get.

 

[Oui Chef]

Although this video might be an infomercial (I wasn't aware of that, as I've said before), one cannot deny that Takeda knives are something special. I'm sure, as Justin is, that Shosui can make any style of knife, in any way he wants. He is very skilled and takes custom orders on the fly.

I do like the rustic finish - his Kurouchi finish is one of a kind, the easy to sharpen edge and the overall thickness of his blades. The epoxy ensures a water tight finish on the handle, which lots of other makers do not have and moisture might get into the handle.

All of the qualities above made me order a custom Nakiri (AS Classic), which Shosui is going to forge for me in the coming month. It's going to be an absolute beast, but thats the way I like Nakiri's (slightly oversized at 200mm long and 65mm high).

one can't deny that they're special
that's going to be one aggressive Nakiri :thumbsup: , sounds like an interesting overall profile, post pics when complete!

 

[erikz]

one can't deny that they're special
that's going to be one aggressive Nakiri :thumbsup: , sounds like an interesting overall profile, post pics when complete!

Will do Ill keep you guys up-to-date.