Takefu knives?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by CiderBear, Jul 18, 2019.

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  1. Jul 24, 2019 #91

    Barclid

    Barclid

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    You'll have a larger quantity of combined W+V in SRS-15 vs. just V in R2. In addition, R2 will have more Cr than SRS-15. The greater quantity of W+V on top of the lesser quantity of Cr should result in lower corrosion resistance as well. For what it's worth, I only have one knife in SRS-15 and several in R2 and I anecdotally find the SRS-15 to be less tough at comparable edge geometry than my R2 knives. In all likelihood that's tied in more to specific heat treatment of the two steels, but I'm no @Larrin so maybe he wants to chime in. I'm not trying to say it's a massive difference, but there's more of a compositional difference between the two than, say, 52100 and 1095.
     
  2. Jul 24, 2019 #92

    M1k3

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    I believe both W and V are less durable than Cr...so R2 should theoretically be tougher, just less abrasion resistant?
     
  3. Jul 24, 2019 #93

    Nemo

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    I'm not familiar with the term "durability" in relation to carbides. Can you explain what is meant by this property?
     
  4. Jul 25, 2019 #94

    M1k3

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    Less chippy. R2 should be less brittle.
     
  5. Jul 25, 2019 #95

    Pila

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    Absolutelly correct. Knives are first hardned to (likely) 66-67 and then tempered to 62-64. But, people love nubers. It is easier to simply repeat than to learn a bit to understand that number. Steel hardness would be imperative on a steel like Shirogami. Aogami Super has some other things in it that are much harder than 66 HRc .

    They do it so they can make them thinner and keep them straight. How is that bad?

    Nope, they would never lie which steel they use. This would not be legal and would be frowned upon particulary in Japan since they value their traditional crafts a lot. These two steels are not similar.

    All that being said: they mostly do use prelaminated steels which they forge into a proper shape ande thinness. I actualy prefer lamination to be one by someone with proper expertize and technology. As long as it is properly reflected in the price.

    Ther are japanese knives made by stock removal and other industrial cutout methods - easily identifiable with perfectly straight lamination line. And they often cost much too much for what they are.
     
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  6. Jul 26, 2019 #96

    Pila

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    On actual topic of Takefu made knives, I have 5. I do not care how are my knives labeled, I treat each of my knives the same: as a workhorse cutting everything, but am cutting with care.

    I have Takamura R2 Gyuto, which is excellent, did not chip even at original 9 dps. Did come with a tiny chip in the edge which I took out immediatelly with a ceramic bar. Now I have reset it to 10 dps to make it a fair race. I have Petty at 9 dps. No chipping, good edge retention. Cleaned and deboned entire chicken with both, cut things with 10 kg of force, cut crusty bread - all is well. Based on them two, I would buy another R2/SG2 and would buy Takamura again. My only two gripes: only Migaki finish available, I prefer rougher - Tsuchime and/or Kurouchi to aid in food release. No Sujihiki 27 cm which I woulde buy in an instant.

    I do have Yu Kurosai Shizuku SG2 Gyuto. Handle is rotated a bit. Tip was not done well. It was ground badly for this steel and this price range. It was sharpened to 13-15 dps. Even that thick, it was chipping a bit! Tsuchime is decorative, leaving most surface flat and does nothing to help food release. Shinogi is high, at about half the blade and food sticks a lot to large kireba. Based on what I got from Yu Kurosaki, I would not buy another R2/SG2 knife nor Yu Kurosaki knife again. I have just thinned and convexed the edge and reset bevels to 10 dps. Now seems better, but needs further testing with this setup.

    I did have Anryu Aogami Super Gyuto Tsuchime Kurouchi. First I had 240 mm and it was wavy. Badly ground edge, too, as a result. Returned it after 2 months when they received a replacement. That is the risk of handmade.

    Replaced it with Anryu Aogami Super Gyuto Tsuchime Kurouchi 210 mm. Came at 10 dps. Thin tip. Cuts often a tad better than other knives at 10 dps. Chips? Never heard of them. Kurouchi is real and not faked after grinding like on many models today. This one will not be easily removed - I did cut many, many oranges, crusty breads, hard cheese... Shiny parts are scratched. Tsuchime is partially decorative (flat areas are not broken up by ovrlaping hammer marks), but Kurouchi saves the day on food release. Handle is offset a bit from the center. AS patinad in about a week. As any AS, it has Felt Pen @ edge function inbuilt: if not used for a week, one must clear the edge if the knife is to be sharp - few gentle swipes with ceramic rod at 10 dps are needed. Based on this knife: I would buy another Aogami Super knife and I would buy another Anryu (but would check it very carefully immediatelly).

    Interrestingly enough, all of these knives have machine made all signitures, Kurosaki and Anryu with the same one. Takamura is even trying to mimic hand chiseling. They are all most likely made from prelaminated stock. But, I do not have issue with pricing of these knives, except for Yu Kurosaki.
     
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  7. Jul 26, 2019 #97

    M1k3

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    Are the cladding lines straight or wavy? Easy way to tell if a hammer has been taken to the stock VS just stock removal.
     
  8. Jul 26, 2019 #98

    Barclid

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    Not sure what you mean by "trying to mimic hand chiseling". It's just a stamp. And Takamura do make a 27cm Sujihiki... It's just not in the red handle line. https://www.mtckitchen.com/takamura-hsps-pro-sujihiki-knife-270mm-10-6/

    They also make the Chromax and VG-10 with Tsuchime finish if that's what you like. Not sure why you said you wouldn't buy another R2 knife again re: your Kurosaki statement when you said you liked the Takamura, too.
     
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  9. Jul 26, 2019 #99

    Nemo

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    My experience with Shizuku has been quite differnt to yours.

    Sure, food release is ordinary but it is a thin knife, like a robustly spined laser, so I expected this. The tip on mine is fine. No chipping at all and very good edge retention. Mine is from KnS, so James probably sharpened away the weak factory edge. He installed the handle right too.
     
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  10. Jul 26, 2019 #100

    bahamaroot

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    I have the hammered Kurosaki R2, not the Shizuku, and love it. No problems with chipping at all, glides through everything. Food release is good but not great.
     
  11. Jul 26, 2019 #101

    Cyrilix

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    Think that was just a miscommunication cause poster explicitly said they would buy a Takamura R2 again, just not a Kurosaki R2.
     
  12. Jul 26, 2019 #102

    ojisan

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    If I understand correctly, MTC carries special versions of Takamura that have the English logo stamped. Other sellers carry the original versions with the kanji logo chiseled. To me it looks actually chiseled... no?
     
  13. Jul 26, 2019 #103

    Barclid

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    That English language stamp wore out some time during their last production cycle and they reverted to Kanji instead of having another made. The English stamp was used to differentiate provenance of each knife (English stamp was only sold through MTC). The Chromax, Wine Red and Pro had the English language stamp but the Uchigumo and Hana had the Kanji stamp. Now all the standard lines are being done with the Kanji stamp. They do both chiseled and stamped Kanji, however, depending on the line. I'll link a few examples.

    https://imgur.com/a/wPEOItL - Hand-engraved red Urushi Hana Sujihiki

    https://imgur.com/a/C15R83n - Hand-engraved wine red Tsuchime Santoku - special edition commemorating their father's award.

    https://imgur.com/a/c3oYym4 - Stamped - 13cm Hana petty.

    I have a 24cm Hana Sujihiki that was stamped as well but I sanded down the etched Damascus finish on that one and lost most of the detail so you can't really tell.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, there is an English-language stamp for the Pro line, called Blazen in Japan. But it's a different stamp than what was used for MTC's stock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  14. Jul 26, 2019 #104

    ojisan

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    Thanks for the info! I actually avoided MTC when I bought my Takamura due to the English logo. The original kanji logo looks better to me.

    As for the Hana petty, are the kanjis also stamped? The logo mark must be stamped, but the kanjis look like chiseled in the picture.
     
  15. Jul 26, 2019 #105

    Barclid

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    It's a stamp. The new Pro line has the stamped kanji as well. Think of it like shigefusa. Most of their knives except single bevel kitaeji have stamped kanji but the stamp that they do use is well done.

    Usually customs or special lines have hand chiseled kanji for Takamura. You can tell when they've done it by hand because it's the last step they do after all the finishing so the hand chiseled kanji will have displaced metal around the edges while the stamp is much cleaner and just all sort of pushed down. Not all of the photos on the website are updated but almost all English logo knives are gone. Just a couple 24cm sujihiki left with it.
     
  16. Jul 26, 2019 #106

    ojisan

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    Thank you! I checked my R2 and yeah now it looks stamped, with pseudo strokes.
    I think you could say it "mimicks" hand chiseling as people like me don't doubt it's chiseled.
     
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  17. Jul 26, 2019 #107

    Barclid

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    I guess so, in the same way that Aritsugu, Masamoto and Shigefusa stamps mimic hand chiseling, in that the stamp is made with distinct stroke marks so that it's not simply one continuous line and continuous depth.
     
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  18. Aug 8, 2019 #108

    drsmp

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    No chips in any of my Kurosaki’s - 2x 180, 2x 210 and a 240. I have 2 AS, 2 R2 and a SRS 13.
     
  19. Aug 19, 2019 #109

    Mastacator

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    I own 7 knives from the village. I’ve loved all of them, but my two favorites are my 240mm Anryu AS hammered Gyuto and the Kurosaki Fujin AS nakiri. I did get to pick all of mine out and have not used knives from other blacksmiths.

    I know they aren’t thought of super highly here, especially amongst much more expensive knives. Is there really much of a performance difference between these and others? Might have to expand my collection soon!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  20. Aug 19, 2019 #110

    Brian Weekley

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    Like I said in a previous post. In my opinion the most humble knife from Takefu will cut better than 99.5% of the knives in the hands of North Americans today. It’s likely that tomorrow’s most collectible knives will be produced by one of the Takefu knife smith apprentices of today. Who are you betting on? Anryu’s 240 Damascus gyuto is one of my favourite rotation knives. Fully reactive, very reasonably priced, attractive, easy to sharpen, rocks and push cuts very well. I keep one permanently in my knife roll when I cook for relatives and friends and another in my rotation. Say what you will about Kurosaki. His knives are breaking the mold in many respects. His finishes are very artistic. For such a young smith it’s hard to imagine where he will be in 20 years. I keep one of his Fujin Bunka’s in my roll just to show Wustoff users just how wonderful a Japanese knife is to use. Performance difference to my more expensive knives of which I have many. Let me ask that question a little differently. Am I capable of extracting the additional performance offered by a $500 knife ... a $1000 knife ... a $2000 knife? I won’t answer that but I think most of us know the answer. I have a Myabi Black santoku that has a place in my permanent non rotating rotation. Lovely cutting knife ... completely devoid of character. You could order a thousand of them and each would be identical. The Takefu village is a wonderful concept and is worthy of support. Are there better knives .... sure .... when your budget allows buy some of them too. It’s all good.
     
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  21. Aug 20, 2019 #111

    dsk

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    I don't currently own any takefu (I entered this knife world on sanjo so I have my bias) but when Makoto releases something new, or finally restocks his white 2, I will be on it. I like his work much more than his brother's.
     
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