Talk about a learning experience, Japanese knives.

[Transmaster]

My kitchen knife heritage is all German, from My German butcher uncles, sadly all gone now, and Grandpa Johnny on the Wyoming ranching side of the family who was Swedish and filled me in on the knives used in outfitting, basically hunting knives and how to take care of them. I got the Japanese.Chinese knife cravings back in the 1980s. Mostly from the "Yan Can Cook" show on PBS. What I have since learned is that Japanese kitchen knives are a whole different world them my trusty German stuff. I was on another knife forum and I was insulted because I mentioned my, in their words, beater Henckels, Zwilling, and Wüthof knives. These are the knives my Butcher Uncles used. I got the idea that pattern-welded kitchen knives is what I wanted. I now have mass-produced Chinese knives I don't like. I will probably end up giving them to my the cooking nephew I have. I wished knew than what I know now. The 2 knives I have from Japanese Chef Knives are a revelation, and the Messiermaster Usuba, from House of Knives in Australia, made in Seki Japan, is the best vegetable knife I have ever had. I have one more knife I need to add. an honest-to-God Chinese cleaver, made in Japan, of course. Watching their use on YouTube I am reminded of the 3 Rams cleaver I had, for a long time it was the only knife I used.

Now that I understand things. My German knives are even more special because I better understand their use, and I feel a stronger connection to my passed-on butcher uncles. How I would love to have just one of the knives they actually used. I have one of Grandpa Johnny's KaBars.

 

[Caleb Cox]

Everything has its place, those "beaters" can hack up a lobster without becoming serrated in the process.

 

[Transmaster]

I make the observation that a German chef could fight off a Zombie invasion of his kitchen with a 10" Wüsthof chef's knife when done wipe it off and go back to chopping carrots. A Shun knife would require re-grinding.

 

[Qapla']

I have one more knife I need to add. an honest-to-God Chinese cleaver, made in Japan, of course.

Does it have to be made in Japan? You might also contact some North American makers about cloning a Chinese-style or Hong-Kong-style knife using modern steels and handle materials.

 

[Transmaster]

Does it have to be made in Japan? You might also contact some North American makers about cloning a Chinese-style or Hong-Kong-style knife using modern steels and handle materials.

No, it does not. One that I am looking at is the Wüsthof 7' Ikon Asian Chef's knife. I have a number of the Ikon line from Wüsthof their handles are beautiful, have great balance, and they have great steel.

 

[Transmaster]

Another one I am looking at is the one from JKC. This one is available in 2.5mm, or 3mm thickness.

 

[Jovidah]

I have a number of the Ikon line from Wüsthof their handles are beautiful, have great balance, and they have great steel.

How did this get through the swearing filter? Please go wash your mouth...

 

[Jovidah]

Also, the idea that 'German knives are deliberately thick to make them more versatile'... isn't necessarily entirely true. Traditionally they were ground thinner, and some producers like Robert Herder still grind them thin. It's more a result of moving towards cheap CNC manufacturing and catering more to dumb consumers who think a chef knife is the perfect tool to open cans.

 

[Transmaster]

So much for this forum. Wüsthof a 208-year-old company is no good, Henckels/Zwilling a 291-year-old company is junk.

As for opening up cans, this is what I use.

 

[Jovidah]

So much for this forum. Wüsthof a 208-year-old company is no good, Henckels/Zwilling a 291-year-old company is junk.

As for opening up cans, this is what I use.

View attachment 286249

Just because they're old companies doesn't mean everything they do is great. For most of their history they made knives that were significantly thinner behind the edge (and had better profile, taper, etc) than they are now after switching to more automated manufacturing. Which is why their older knives are quite popular among collectors and show up frequently here. Some rare exceptions like Robert Herder still make knives with a Sölinger Dunnschliff today, and they're quite different from what is now commonly seen as 'German knives'.
Ironically the higher regarded lines from Zwilling are all made in Japan.

I could have put it nicer, but I actually own a bunch of Wüsthof Classic Ikons... I don't mind the smaller ones so much but especially on the 23 cm chef knife that handle is really the worst handle I have ever used on a full size chef knife. It's outright unergonomical due to the downward curve (makes my wrist hurt), it's excessively handle-heavy... and then you have a profile that just doesn't make sense. Even though I bought it at half-price it still feels like one of my worst knife purchases. And while I don't mind the steel, it's nothing special either.
I recently ordered an Arcos Atlantico 250 off amazon for 25 euros. I actually think it's better than the Wüsthof in every way that matters even though it's a fraction of the price (though steel might be slightly worse).