TF Denka Gyuto - 180mm or 195mm?

[demcav]

I currently have 2 TF Denka gyutos: a 270mm and a 210mm with yo handles. Both of mine are great knives although I tend to use the 210 more often in the home kitchen, and the 270 more for professional use. I am considering adding a smaller Denka gyuto for home use, primarily for smaller items and tip work on the board, not as a parer.

But since I would likely have to order sight-unseen, I have several questions that I'm hoping any of you who use a smaller Denka gyuto will respond to:
Are the tips on these generally thinner than on a 210, making them better for tip work?
Is the handle size smaller than a 210, as I'm not interested in a skinny handle?
Do you find the shorter blade changes the balance point to be more handle-heavy; balance points on my current two are just forward of the finger notches using a pinch grip?
Does blade/heel height allow for finger clearance on the board, near 50mm?

If you would, please include the size you are referring to and your likes/dislikes in your response. PLEASE AVOID including the normal fit/finish issues as I'm already aware of these. I'm only concerned with usage and performance.

Thank you!

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

I currently have 2 TF Denka gyutos: a 270mm and a 210mm with yo handles. Both of mine are great knives although I tend to use the 210 more often in the home kitchen, and the 270 more for professional use. I am considering adding a smaller Denka gyuto for home use, primarily for smaller items and tip work on the board, not as a parer.

But since I would likely have to order sight-unseen, I have several questions that I'm hoping any of you who use a smaller Denka gyuto will respond to:
Are the tips on these generally thinner than on a 210, making them better for tip work?
Is the handle size smaller than a 210, as I'm not interested in a skinny handle?
Do you find the shorter blade changes the balance point to be more handle-heavy; balance points on my current two are just forward of the finger notches using a pinch grip?
Does blade/heel height allow for finger clearance on the board, near 50mm?

If you would, please include the size you are referring to and your likes/dislikes in your response. PLEASE AVOID including the normal fit/finish issues as I'm already aware of these. I'm only concerned with usage and performance.

Thank you!

I have a 195mm x 51mm yo, it's a very nifty size. Love it for shallots, salsa, coring smaller tomatoes, etc. Used it as a daily driver in my smaller kitchen with no complaints. 180mm yo mab was a bit to small and short for me, and balance tipped too far back too

 

[tostadas]

I have a 180 Morihei version (not a denka) and it's 50mm. Balance is right at the choil. There is plenty of finger clearance. The angle of the blade edge for the shorter knife helps to naturally raise the handle up a bit as well compared to longer ones.

I also have a number of other TF in 135, 210, 240, and they vary quite a bit in terms of tip thickness from 0.9 to 1.3mm at 1cm from the tip. I dont think you can really generalize a relation between thickness and length for TF. With some exceptions, I think you could reasonably expect the tip to be medium thickness with slight taper.

I like the weight of TF in each of the different sizes. They tend to have extra heft compared to comparable japanese knives. The 180 sometimes feels a tad bit short, and the 210 sometimes a bit long for small tasks. If I were to pick one, I would like to try the 195.

edit: These are all yo-handle versions.

 

[demcav]

I have a 195mm x 51mm yo, it's a very nifty size. Love it for shallots, salsa, coring smaller tomatoes, etc. ...180mm yo mab was a bit to small and short for me, and balance tipped too far back too

Thank you for the height of your 195mm Denka, and for your experience with the 180mm yo Mab. Very helpful info!

I have a 180 Morihei version (not a denka) and it's 50mm. Balance is right at the choil. There is plenty of finger clearance.
...
I also have a number of other TF in 135, 210, 240, and they vary quite a bit in terms of tip thickness from 0.9 to 1.3mm at 1cm from the tip.
...
The 180 sometimes feels a tad bit short, and the 210 sometimes a bit long for small tasks. If I were to pick one, I would like to try the 195. These are all yo-handle versions.

Extremely helpful info, thank you!

 

[Corradobrit1]

I have both 210 and 190 Yo Denka's (finger notch effectively takes 10-15mm off the usable edge length in my experience if choked up in a pinch grip). These are my two fav knives in my home kitchen arsenal.
The 210 is a little unique in that it was thinned by TF-IV along the entire blade road. I would say its a little thinner towards the tip compared to the 190 as a result although there's not huge difference. Distal taper is about the same ie. not fantastic. The 210 is about 2mm taller making the 48mm tall 190 still very handy for board work even if the user has thick fingers. The 210 has an Ebony handle which is a little more petite than the pakka wood standard one on the 190. I have also handled (pun intended) a 240 and 210 Morihei iron clad FF versions, which I felt had better handles for comfort as they felt more substantial in hand. I have medium size hands so I think you might be disappointed. I would either rehandle or go the Morihei TF (W#1) SS FF route if the handle is a deal breaker.
Balance point for both is spot on right where the forefinger grips the blade. TF adjust the weight of the tang so that balance is maintained even for shorter knives.

The Denkas are the 2nd and 3rd knives down.

 

[YumYumSauce]

Also very intereted in this. Denka gyuto in 180 or 195 mm will probably be my next knife purchase too

 

[demcav]

I have both 210 and 190 Yo Denka's (finger notch effectively takes 10-15mm off the usable edge length in my experience if choked up in a pinch grip). These are my two fav knives in my home kitchen arsenal...

Lots of very helpful info. for me -- thank you for taking the time!

 

[Brian Weekley]

FWIW I‘ve been living with several TF’s over the past six months. A 240 Morihei FF, 240 Denka, 210 Mab, 180 Mab (all gyutos) and just recently added a 195 Nakiri and a 150 Petty. All of the Knives have been thinned, some by me, some by others and some by a professional. IMO, all needed thinning. The two most used in my kitchen were the 180 and 210 Mab gyutos. If I had to pick a most used I’d say the 180 but I found it a bit light for many of the veges I cut. Full stalk bundles of celery, cabbage, large potatoes, large onions. Unsuitable for more robust veges. The 210 was better for this work, but still not perfect. The 180 was handle heavy, the 210 slightly blade heavy. The 180 was 46mm deep at the heel and the 210 is 52mm. Both were excellent in use. Here’s a pic ...

Neither were perfect all around for veges, and weren’t a factor for slicing and portioning meat which invariably called for a 240. So I reasoned that the perfect compromise would be a 195. As I’m a nakiri lover I headed in that direction with TF’s 195mm Mab nakiri. It too has been thinned … this time professionally by Ryan Swanson of District Cutlery where I bought the knife. It is 66mm deep at the heel. Another pic …

I put it to work yesterday doing the vege prep for a favourite cassarole. For that purpose it was better for me than both gyutos and I suspect a 195mm Gyuto would be better too, and a little more versatile.

The only Denka that I have and use regularly is a 240 Gyuto. I mention this only because I found the heat treatment on all the TF’s were excellent and the White steel in the Mabs easiest to touch up and sharpen. I have both stones and strops at hand in my kitchen and it’s easy for me to touch up the Mabs. Simply put, though probably offering a superior edge by some small margin, the Denka’s weren’t worth the extra price to me.

That’s my experience for what it’s worth.

 

[demcav]

Thank you, Brian -- reading your experience is worth a lot, so I appreciate you sharing, as well as for the pictures you posted!